King of the Hammers Info

[Darryl89]

LOL, I think we are almost on the same page Joey, but portions of our thinking are different. Granted, LOORS and KOH aren't the same, but I see a comparison in the marketing of it as the same.

Like I said, no one wants it easier, just don't purposely make it harder to break cars. Perhaps it was the way Dave worded it that keyed on some. And I'm all for longer, that just means more time in the car to enjoy it.

I do hope that one day SXS's enjoy the fame and attention that the bigger cars and trucks do, you know I've fought for that Joey, I was the one that took the time to put the time comparison together for the V2R race last year, promoting that SXS's were extremely competitive. I just worry that the money and attention aren't there yet to justify making the course so hard to break a majority of competitors (if the spectators see nothing but a bunch of SXS's breaking, they won't want to come back next time).

I applaud Mike, Dave and Reid for working so hard on this event, I think it'll be awesome with 40 SXS's running. I just hope that it goes off well and causes more attention to come to the sport next go around, you know that I'll be pushing for that, but just being conservative with it...

I'm glad that UTVUG has the great bunch of folks it has, if this was one of the other unmentioned forums, I would've been banned for speaking up... Thanks Joey.

Of course if Robert (Bobonthis) gets in front of me, I'm gonna check his rear bumper for sturdiness after his remark... ..smartass...LOL

 

[Crowdog]

Very well said JoeyD. Now with the cheese & towels out of the way lets get it on!

I hear you! I am going in to have fun this year. Hope to win, but focusing on finishing. If you are worried about busting your ride, slow down....pure and simple way to get through the KOH course. If necessary, bust out the winch instead of beating your car.

 

[Darryl89]

If necessary, bust out the winch instead of beating your car.

Jon, when you go by, I'm tossing a towline onto your car, that Muzzy big block has enough power to pull us both from what I've seen....
See you out there...

 

[Crowdog]

Jon, when you go by, I'm tossing a towline onto your car, that Muzzy big block has enough power to pull us both from what I've seen....
See you out there...

It has the power for sure!

 

[TNT]

I read through the first three pages and watched the first video. What week are we talking about? Sure is hard for the noobs, got to read through a bunch of threads/post just to get the basics?

I didn't go to last year never been, thinking about going Friday Feb 3rd my birthday spectator taking the day off work or is that too late? Where is the entry fee, and will I be too late to get my 70 foot rig in?

 

[yield2me]

Sorry, but if you have to ask those questions, then you are no where close to being ready to race Hardest One Day Race in the World!!

But, if you want to spectate, the UTV race is Thursday, 9 February.

You will have no problem getting your 70 footer in there.

Rob

 

[megonzo]

Joey Joey Joey, spoken truly like someone that doesn't buy their own shit...LOL
Hard is good, but stupid isn't... do you want Jagged X, Casey Currie and Jon Crowley being the only ones racing in this in another year or two...
I commend Mike and Dave for building a good course, but the idea shouldn't be to break people... if that is so, then it becomes a rich man's only type sport...and if I'm going to get into a money spending game, I sure the hell am not spending it on a UTV... I'll buy a Jimmy's 4X4 car and race the real race then...where at least I can get big sponsors and real contingency monies...

Spot on...

 

[JoeyD23]

joanne,

So you know, since I get emails when posts are made despite them being deleted....

I HAVE NEVER, NOT ONCE, NOT EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST BIT, been contacted or communicated too by Dave Cole, Mike Lasher or ANYONE eles in regards to my opinions on this race or any other KOH's type race that they run. SO, with that said I have never offered my opinions to anyone on what I PERSONALLY would like to see out of a once a year race like KOH's. So therefor whatever decisions they have made or make in regards to this race is purely on their own and has nothing to do with me. Should they ask then I will tell them what I think and I honestly love that the race gets harder and more challenging every year. Again, from a fans perspective and one who follows UTV racing probably as much or more than anyone else, I feel that KOH's is supposed to be the roughest, toughest off-road race held in the United States!!

Do I think anyone should design a race purely out of will to BREAK ones machine? NO. But do I think they should cater to those who are simply afraid to break or don't want to break? NO. This is supposed to be one of the toughest races in the world and that was why my "Queen" comment was made. It was not to insinuate anything towards you personally as a female. The beauty of forums and message boards is that its ok to have a difference of opinion and I apologize if my opinion on the subject offends you.

 

[yield2me]

Spot on...

Not really....KOH is based on Rock Crawling. Rock Crawling is hard on people and machines, alot harder on a 4500lb machine than a 1500lb machine. Shannon Campbell has one it twice, once in a car that was would cost close to $200k to duplicate. Yet, every year, people from all over the world, still try to go race against him and the few others who have $$$$$ rigs.

Its not a matter of "buying a Jimmy's chassis and racing", you still have to QUALIFY!!! Plus, the first time you hit a rock at speed and take out 2 $300 wheels, and 2 $500 tires, you will see what I mean! You can go big time on shocks and spend $3000 TOPS on a UTV (I am assuming what a King Coil-pass costs $750ea). Sjy is the limit in Ultra4!! And man, it hurts when you roll, or someone drives over your car and takes out both a 16" bypass and coilover! (ask Levi Shirley).

I had a talk with Big Jim about upgrading my Rhino spindles to tapered bearings. He said "cost" was the big issue. I said cost was realative. If I had to spend $1000 to never have to worry about wheel bearings every race, I think that is money well spent. For a weekend trail rider? No way, but if I do buy them, then other manufactures start building them, guess what, cost comes down, and in a matter of time everyone can have them. Same thing happened (is happening) in Ultra4.

Again, Daryl, the jump between a $25k car and a $50k-and up car is huge. Plus, spares, plus a tow rig and trailer to tow it around with, plus, plus, plus.

Racing UTV's at KOH will force the aftermarket to step up (I know the extreme mud racing clowns forced them to). Not everyone needs billet gearshift knobs and gas caps.

Either way, I am racing KOH in my Rhino with a 693, LSR Long travel, Gorrila axles, FOA shocks (my only sponsor as I have worked with those guys for years), 5k winch and lots of spare parts. I am hoping my experience in the rocks will make up for my engine shortcomings.

Oh, and I am just a regular guy, with a wife and two kids, no garage (I prep and work on my rig in my gooseneck trailer which I keep parked at work 12 miles away), so to guys like Casey Currie (who I really dont think that highly of), Jagged X (who I like, but I think they keep winning KOH because he has never had any competition in the rocks..again my opinion) and who ever else you listed above....I say bring it with your sponsors and money!!

This race will not be won or lost in the 70+ plus miles of desert, it will be won or lost in the rocks!

Let the race, racers, machines and aftermarket evolve. If I cant keep up, I will step aside, but to prevent them is wrong IMHO.

See everyone in a few weeks!!! It will be a great time!!

Rob
#1999

 

[JoeyD23]

I applaud Mike, Dave and Reid for working so hard on this event, I think it'll be awesome with 40 SXS's running. I just hope that it goes off well and causes more attention to come to the sport next go around, you know that I'll be pushing for that, but just being conservative with it...

Also since I mentioned that I have no part in this years planning of the KOH UTV race I should also mention that Reid has also not had any part in the planning this year. Last year we played rolls in either designing the race or rules or promoting. This year he and I were not enlisted to help and thats cool with us. We look forward to attending again this year as we have the last few years and as long as there are UTV's I know I intend on being a part of it from a coverage and promotion stand point because I love the sport of UTV racing and our readers and members expect the coverage!

 

[JoeyD23]

Not really....KOH is based on Rock Crawling. Rock Crawling is hard on people and machines, alot harder on a 4500lb machine than a 1500lb machine. Shannon Campbell has one it twice, once in a car that was would cost close to $200k to duplicate. Yet, every year, people from all over the world, still try to go race against him and the few others who have $$$$$ rigs.

Its not a matter of "buying a Jimmy's chassis and racing", you still have to QUALIFY!!! Plus, the first time you hit a rock at speed and take out 2 $300 wheels, and 2 $500 tires, you will see what I mean! You can go big time on shocks and spend $3000 TOPS on a UTV (I am assuming what a King Coil-pass costs $750ea). Sjy is the limit in Ultra4!! And man, it hurts when you roll, or someone drives over your car and takes out both a 16" bypass and coilover! (ask Levi Shirley).

I had a talk with Big Jim about upgrading my Rhino spindles to tapered bearings. He said "cost" was the big issue. I said cost was realative. If I had to spend $1000 to never have to worry about wheel bearings every race, I think that is money well spent. For a weekend trail rider? No way, but if I do buy them, then other manufactures start building them, guess what, cost comes down, and in a matter of time everyone can have them. Same thing happened (is happening) in Ultra4.

Again, Daryl, the jump between a $25k car and a $50k-and up car is huge. Plus, spares, plus a tow rig and trailer to tow it around with, plus, plus, plus.

Racing UTV's at KOH will force the aftermarket to step up (I know the extreme mud racing clowns forced them to). Not everyone needs billet gearshift knobs and gas caps.

Either way, I am racing KOH in my Rhino with a 693, LSR Long travel, Gorrila axles, FOA shocks (my only sponsor as I have worked with those guys for years), 5k winch and lots of spare parts. I am hoping my experience in the rocks will make up for my engine shortcomings.

Oh, and I am just a regular guy, with a wife and two kids, no garage (I prep and work on my rig in my gooseneck trailer which I keep parked at work 12 miles away), so to guys like Casey Currie (who I really dont think that highly of), Jagged X (who I like, but I think they keep winning KOH because he has never had any competition in the rocks..again my opinion) and who ever else you listed above....I say bring it with your sponsors and money!!

This race will not be won or lost in the 70+ plus miles of desert, it will be won or lost in the rocks!

Let the race, racers, machines and aftermarket evolve. If I cant keep up, I will step aside, but to prevent them is wrong IMHO.

See everyone in a few weeks!!! It will be a great time!!

Rob
#1999

Rep points! Only thing you are off on is the Jagged X comment. They won last year but it was by the hair on their chinny chin chins as Mitch Guthrie, who won the year previos, was breathing down their necks in his much slower RZR 800. This year Mitch is bringing a gun to a gun fight with his new XP900 and is coming to regain his title. So, with that said, Jagged has competition with not only Guthrie but with with Currie, Crowley, Bush, and many many others who had some bad breaks or in the case of Bush, was a rookie to this event. This year the competition will be stiffer with more cars than ever!!!

So other than the JX comment I love what you have to say! You don't need sponsors to compete in the UTV class. You need to know how to drive and know how to prep and make sure you have a rig capable of the extreme terrain.

 

[yield2me]

Rep points! Only thing you are off on is the Jagged X comment. They won last year but it was by the hair on their chinny chin chins as Mitch Guthrie, who won the year previos, was breathing down their necks in his much slower RZR 800. This year Mitch is bringing a gun to a gun fight with his new XP900 and is coming to regain his title. So, with that said, Jagged has competition with not only Guthrie but with with Currie, Crowley, Bush, and many many others who had some bad breaks or in the case of Bush, was a rookie to this event. This year the competition will be stiffer with more cars than ever!!!

So other than the JX comment I love what you have to say! You don't need sponsors to compete in the UTV class. You need to know how to drive and know how to prep and make sure you have a rig capable of the extreme terrain.

Ok, since UTV's are a side show (I kid, I kid!!) I never really kept up on them, just what I read on Pirate. I am not really in the know on a lot of the UTV personalities, but I do recognize those names.

Bottom line, a lot of the concerns are a reason having the different classes in ISA, is a good thing. You may not start at the front in the Stock Production class, but you can still race against others in the same race....and if the stars align...could win it all!!


Rob

 

[Darryl89]

Also since I mentioned that I have no part in this years planning of the KOH UTV race I should also mention that Reid has also not had any part in the planning this year. Last year we played rolls in either designing the race or rules or promoting. This year he and I were not enlisted to help and thats cool with us. We look forward to attending again this year as we have the last few years and as long as there are UTV's I know I intend on being a part of it from a coverage and promotion stand point because I love the sport of UTV racing and our readers and members expect the coverage!

My correction on Reid, someone had mentioned his name so I picked up on it. But I do applaud Dave and Mike...

Rob, I know exactly what it takes to do KOH in the Ultra 4 class. I spend plenty of time around them and know exactly what they can and can't do.
And I beg to differ, many of the UTVs cost a lot more than 25K. And as for the aftermarket and OEM companies stepping up...yeah, I'm still waiting.... and waiting..... they won't build a KOH capable machine, the costs of it and market just don't call for it... So don't believe that KOH racing breeds better UTV's. I am a UTV dealer and have watched for years as more capable machines were begged for, and it's taken years to get the XP and the Wildcat. And at that, they still need work.
Now to say that you went and had $1000 spindles built...wow, I sure wouldn't...

AS I SAID BEFORE, DON'T MAKE THE COURSE EASIER, WE DON'T WANT EASIER..GET OFF YOUR DAMN LINE OF THAT! WE ARE SAYING DON'T MAKE THE COURSE SO TOUGH THAT ALL IT DOES IS BREAK MOST OF THE COMPETITORS. Dang that is so hard to get through yours and Joey's heads. I did not say make it easier... I was standing up for Joanne's point of view of not making it a machine breaker... I'm quite confident that my utv will do just fine, if it breaks so be it.... sheesh guys... home in on the caplocks part... I am all for it being longer, I like longer races. I am all for driving smarter through tough sections, I'm well aware that is what won the race for the past years.

 

[JoeyD23]

simmer down Darryl! lol I guess I can't decipher the difference in "WE DON"T WANT IT EASIER" and "WE ARE SAYING DONT MAKE THE COURSE SO TOUGH" ???

This race is probably the hardest single race when it comes to a vehicle and its limits in terms of breaking. So I will end my stance with, if you are afraid to break and don't want to pay to repair what does break then you probably shouldn't race the hammers cause there is a good chance you can and will scratch, snap, break, roll, or damage something.

Otherwise, line it up and run it and have some fun and let us get some more cool pics of your machines! I think what makes the hammers so cool is you DON'T need a big sponsor, or a huge crew to run it. Only thing I don't like about the new format is all the classes, I prefer the open class format but I also see the side of those who made the decision and I support it.

 

[Darryl89]

simmer down Darryl! lol I guess I can't decipher the difference in "WE DON"T WANT IT EASIER" and "WE ARE SAYING DONT MAKE THE COURSE SO TOUGH" ???

This race is probably the hardest single race when it comes to a vehicle and its limits in terms of breaking. So I will end my stance with, if you are afraid to break and don't want to pay to repair what does break then you probably shouldn't race the hammers cause there is a good chance you can and will scratch, snap, break, roll, or damage something.

Otherwise, line it up and run it and have some fun and let us get some more cool pics of your machines! I think what makes the hammers so cool is you DON'T need a big sponsor, or a huge crew to run it. Only thing I don't like about the new format is all the classes, I prefer the open class format but I also see the side of those who made the decision and I support it.

Like I said, I'm not worried about my car, I just think it's wrong for everyone to attack someone else when they express concern about it becoming nothing but a machine breaker...

As for my car Joey, it'll hold it's own, it already has on a test track with a LOORS pro 2 truck and several ultra4 cars... didn't outrun them, but it sure the heck earned respect...

I am looking forward to KOH, but come on guys, not everyone is into trash talking and bulls&&*. If someone expresses concern, let them, but don't attack them.. Joey, stop and remember, it's not the racers that build your site, but the members, who are just regular joes out to have fun...

 

[JoeyD23]

I am not attacking anyone person and I am sorry if people feel attacked. I just felt it was time to voice my opinion in the face of others who were saying it shouldn't be a parts breaker. No one wants to see people break, I have said that, but I certainly don't think the race should cater to those who are afraid to break either.

Way to go Darryl. Glad you will finally get your UTV on the track after all these years of building it.

 

[Darryl89]

I am not attacking anyone person and I am sorry if people feel attacked. I just felt it was time to voice my opinion in the face of others who were saying it shouldn't be a parts breaker. No one wants to see people break, I have said that, but I certainly don't think the race should cater to those who are afraid to break either.

Way to go Darryl. Glad you will finally get your UTV on the track after all these years of building it.

Joey, I think it's more of a problem of not being able to understand emotions or comment when they are written in a forum, I don't believe anyone was saying make it easier. I will stand for what Joanne said and that's why I jumped in, saying what I said. I still support her and what her opinon is, but some did jump and sounded arrogant about it... people need to realize, everyone here has a right to their opinon and it's BS when others make fun of it.

The worry came from Dave Cole's video comments and comments from his radio station interview the other night. It was just the way it was said and taken. "that the first year things were too easy, so they made it harder last year and some wanted it even harder, so them made it longer and its now harder than the everyman challenge, it's in between the emc race and the ultra4 race."
Paraphrased, but basically the way it was said could worry some.

Me, I really don't care, I'm going out to have fun, see what happens and be there for my buddy Loren Healy and then sneak over and give Dean Bulloch a hard time... Plus I'll be helping out Randy (Jimmy's 4X4) with their cars and basically getting in their way...

Thanks for the way to go...it's been exactly 2 years since I started..way too long to get'er done, but I don't owe any sponsors anything and I know it's done right...well, I hope it is..LOL.

Peace out buddies and bros or whatever the heck the cool people say nowadays...

 

[JoeyD23]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. If Dave Cole said what you say he said (I didn't hear his interview or watch the videos yet) then I agree. If it scares some people away then so be it. If it starts to scare everyone away and car counts go backwards then I will eat crow and KOH will be forced to revert and decide accordingly as to how they continue to operate the UTV class. I want to see KOH's get tougher every year personally, not drasticlly tougher but I want to see it change and progress. Tougher could be longer, it could be in the dark, it could be in the rocks, but it doesn't always have to mean more money and more broken parts.

I think a tough race is what KOH's is about and I am sorry if Joanne, or anyone else gets upset with me over that. It is what it is... I just want to see an exciting race. If they took Soboba and made it only an hour and made it only 3 miles it would ruin the event. Same goes for KOH. Making it easier or not as challenging as years prior is kind of boring and if I was racing I would feel the same way. We all look for challenges!

 

[yield2me]

No manufacturer will ever step up.....just like you cant go buy a Jeep and run KOH (main event). Its the aftermarket!! And they have! First it was shafts, then cv's, now you can get 300m shafts! What else are you breaking? What would you like to see that isnt available? Just curious, because I am pretty new to these things, and every upgrade I have wanted/needed has been available from several manufacturers (except for an up grade to my spindles).

Oh, and havent UTV's only been around for a few years??? It took JEEP about 70 years to get a 4:1 t-case, Dana 44's, and two lockers!! lol

I didnt get the spindles and have no idea what they cost as they dont yet exist, but I would gladly pay $1000 for them. The Rhino has a crappy set-up that has cost me finishing 2 races, and totally demolished my HCR spindles ($800).

Just because a UTV costs more than $25k doesnt mean it has to. They ran the course in a stock Teryx.

I guess as a past KOH racer, hearing people say to make it too hard kind of rubs me wrong, as it is supposed to be hard! I think the OP took what Dave said as it was going to be more along the lines as the main race. If THAT is the case, then I dont necessarily disagree.

I will say this.....I am SO GLAD I am not going to destroy my rockcrawler in KOH this year! I will gladly be in the pits during the main race watching them destroy theirs!!

Rob

 

[Hounslow]

Dirt Makes some Pretty Bitchen Spindles W/ Removable & adjustable pivot arms. Little Pricey IF you can even find them