BITD Email to UTV Racers. Please Read and Respond ASAP
- Thread starter JoeyD23
- Start date
Is the question evolving towards the power difference is debatable? This issue could start making about as much sense as politics.....
I will leave this here.
Josh Daniels built a Twin Turbo Trick Truck for the 2014/2015 BITD season. He has been very fast but has not yet won. So far after two seasons of being legal, he is the only one racing a Turbo in TT. I wish everyone good luck at Parker and my money is on a NA RZR for the win.
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Josh Daniels built a Twin Turbo Trick Truck for the 2014/2015 BITD season. He has been very fast but has not yet won. So far after two seasons of being legal, he is the only one racing a Turbo in TT. I wish everyone good luck at Parker and my money is on a NA RZR for the win.
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I'm going to throw in my .02 because I might come out and play once or twice in 2016, in my N/A "shifter" car.....
What racing organization anywhere allows Turbos to race with N/A cars? (except in an open/unlimited class?) The fact that this is even being argued is a little weird from someone outside looking in......and wanting to put a manual trans, N/A car that is under the 1000cc limit into an Unlimited class just because you have to manually shift it is also weird. Now a "manual trans" somehow bumps a vehicle into Unlimited??
To me it's pretty simple. Pro Production = N/A 1000cc Production UTVs (doesn't matter if it's manual or CVT) Open Pro = Production Turbo cars, aftermarket turbo production cars, modified motor production cars. Sportsman = everything else as long as it has a motor and looks like a UTV
If someone wants to race Pro Production, don't race a turbo. If someone wants to race Turbo, then race Open Pro. Everyone has that choice.......
Best wishes on getting this figured out so everyone can go have some fun in 2016!
What racing organization anywhere allows Turbos to race with N/A cars? (except in an open/unlimited class?) The fact that this is even being argued is a little weird from someone outside looking in......and wanting to put a manual trans, N/A car that is under the 1000cc limit into an Unlimited class just because you have to manually shift it is also weird. Now a "manual trans" somehow bumps a vehicle into Unlimited??
To me it's pretty simple. Pro Production = N/A 1000cc Production UTVs (doesn't matter if it's manual or CVT) Open Pro = Production Turbo cars, aftermarket turbo production cars, modified motor production cars. Sportsman = everything else as long as it has a motor and looks like a UTV
If someone wants to race Pro Production, don't race a turbo. If someone wants to race Turbo, then race Open Pro. Everyone has that choice.......
Best wishes on getting this figured out so everyone can go have some fun in 2016!
I wouldn't disagree with that but the video was a drag race not a desert race. Does a turbo have staying power is the $64k question. If it turns into the unlimited class where the car that finished wins then that's the way the cookies crumble and NA will still be the TOP class. Teams will be repowering those turbo cars left and right.
George face the fact they are not going to structure the class like a moto class, that is way to many classes. If that is what you are looking for go race the PURE series or one of the other UTV only series.
BITD desert is the driving series for a true PRO CLASS in desert racing. BITD houses the largest Pro Classes in all of desert racing, they are not looking to structure a UTV Class to meet every make and model of UTV. Look at the other classes, they are simple and to the point. So lets make the UTV Classes the same, Pro/Unlimited and Production/Sportsman.
BITD and us racers want to see the class continue to grow, as that what makes and brings more competition. The more complicated we make this class the more its going to destroy it.
Just like the TT class has been mentioned, they are allowed to do what they want with their engines; built, turbo or whatever else you want to add, and at the end of the day that still is not what determines the winner. However their class is a lot simpler and structured, none of this back and forth every 3 months. The guys that enter into the TT class race it to race the best of the best, they know what the class is and know what it is going to be. The also know that they can build their truck too meet their personal driving style or needs. Simple and to the point is key!
I will say it again let the Pro Class do what they want with their engines and cars and may the best man or lady win! If you do not want to race a truly OPEN Pro Class stay in the Production/Sportsman class with locked in rules and mods.
This is my thoughts as we all have them lol but the class needs to be simple, clear and cost effective for it to continue to grow!
BITD desert is the driving series for a true PRO CLASS in desert racing. BITD houses the largest Pro Classes in all of desert racing, they are not looking to structure a UTV Class to meet every make and model of UTV. Look at the other classes, they are simple and to the point. So lets make the UTV Classes the same, Pro/Unlimited and Production/Sportsman.
BITD and us racers want to see the class continue to grow, as that what makes and brings more competition. The more complicated we make this class the more its going to destroy it.
Just like the TT class has been mentioned, they are allowed to do what they want with their engines; built, turbo or whatever else you want to add, and at the end of the day that still is not what determines the winner. However their class is a lot simpler and structured, none of this back and forth every 3 months. The guys that enter into the TT class race it to race the best of the best, they know what the class is and know what it is going to be. The also know that they can build their truck too meet their personal driving style or needs. Simple and to the point is key!
I will say it again let the Pro Class do what they want with their engines and cars and may the best man or lady win! If you do not want to race a truly OPEN Pro Class stay in the Production/Sportsman class with locked in rules and mods.
This is my thoughts as we all have them lol but the class needs to be simple, clear and cost effective for it to continue to grow!
We weighed the cars before the race and they were within 100 pounds of each other. Same tire/wheel combo, suspension, etc. No Sims clutch had not been tuned which would make a difference. The next pull he was about 1 car length further ahead than in this video. but also remember mine is a bone stock 1000. Also this is not in silt or sand where the turbo will really capitalize. Yes there are variables that would change results but you have to admit is not quite as bad of an ass whooping as you would think! Lol
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Making the Pro class an Open class will make it a full on money war and you will lose racers and car counts. I've seen it happen over and over again. IMO that would be a huge mistake, unless you only want to cater to those with the largest bank accounts. The UTV class does not have the same financial demographic as the TT class - that is why UTV racers are not racing TTs.
What are you talking about as it is right now its a full on money/sponsorship war! With structuring it this way it allows us guys to upgrade our current cars with an aftermarket turbo system or a bigger engine for a lot cheaper. If they split it to Production Turbo and Production 1000 classes than your going to kill car counts, competition, and really create a money/sponsorship war. In my opinion and what fits my budget is having the classes structured as I have mentioned.
If they split classes and have half of the best drivers in each class, believe me this class will fall. Lets keep it simple and feasible for all the best drivers to still compete against each other.
you can go buy a TT built in 2010 and make it competitive. You cant get a used 2010 rzr and make it competitive at all in this class. Same goes with most of the BITD classes. Utv are changing every other year how do you keep class numbers up and make everyone happy is the question? Will BITD see drop in class next year or will we see more then ever or was this pinnacle year before the fall? Maybe the other question is how many 1000 N/A will race next season and how many won't?
i am another outsider looking in. maybe i can help shed some light on the situation because i work with so many of these machines day in and day out. the turbo cars are in a league of their own in these races. Vegas to Reno, S3 had nearly a 40 minute lead on 2nd place at one point. The Murrays were behind S3 in 2nd place with i think a 14 minute lead on at the time around mile 450-500 was Scott Yancy in a full our Cognito built race car. Two can-am turbos pulled a huge lead on the rest of the field because their power up top with the turbos. I know what the can-ams are capable of because i have clutched them and ran them. i also know what the polaris turbo is capable of because i have clutched them and ran them as well, and knowing what is available for them, they are going to absolutely walk away from the rest of the pack when a 4 seater comes out. That kinda power with the wheel base of the 4 seater is going to be a monstrous advantage. To give an example, i think its been posted here before but here it is again. A video showing a racer in Vegas to Reno getting passed by S3, in a long straight away, after they too were already passing slower cars. They are caught up to, bumped twice, and passed within 20 seconds, at 70mph and were passed like they were standing still. the polaris XPTurbo has the same power, and ability to pass someone at 70mph like they are standing still. i have done a half dozen XPTurbos now, stock and flashed, and i dont know what is going on in the video of carver and simms, but either one is sand bagging, or the other is highly built, cause apples to apples, there is no real comparison. fully dressed and weighted the same, the turbo car should walk away from the NA car like its standing still. I have a track at my test facility with a lap timing system, and i have had XP1000 owners come and do their clutching ect, and recently began building their XPTurbo and have now had two of them on my track, the owners basically have two identical cars, they have their built motor XP1000 for cross country racing and their new stock XPturbo, and the turbo blows their lap times away in their NA car. its a whole different ball game when you throw 30+hp more down to the ground.
My personal opinion is to split the class into a PRODUCTION class for N/A cars, and a seperate class for Turbo cars. and then have an Unlimited. Nobody runs sportsman anyway. drop it. cory and casey both said no more classes........ so..... why add more, drop the one that nobody runs in. why should sportsman class be chasing points and a championship when there are less than 5 entries at any given race. give the championship classes to 3 classes that will be full.
:EDIT: scroll and start around 3:00
and here is the commentary from the driver.
My personal opinion is to split the class into a PRODUCTION class for N/A cars, and a seperate class for Turbo cars. and then have an Unlimited. Nobody runs sportsman anyway. drop it. cory and casey both said no more classes........ so..... why add more, drop the one that nobody runs in. why should sportsman class be chasing points and a championship when there are less than 5 entries at any given race. give the championship classes to 3 classes that will be full.
:EDIT: scroll and start around 3:00
and here is the commentary from the driver.
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I plan on racing next year but if the class is split Production NA and Production Turbo it will all be determined on which is the "pro" class with all the top racers. If its in the turbo class I will have to reconsider as I don't have the funding to build a new turbo car nor have the desire not to race with the best drivers. This is why I would like to see the classes restructured as I have mentioned in my pervious posts.
I understand that as well, as that will make the expenses go up but you wont have to replace your whole car every year which is a much lager cost and to me a very discouraging outlook for someone wanting to start racing BITD. To me we need to find away to keep the current racers racing and this will help bring more in the long run.
LOL, sorry to say but that car is not a good example or representation of what a NA XP1000 can do. When you are making less power than stock everything else seems very fast! lol.
Nate
Alba Racing
If you take step back and look at the class this was the pinnacle year for utv, it was the 3rd year of 1000 now it time to change. What cody is saying is right, How do you keep old rzr still racing it kind of like the old 800/rhino? If you go off utv history UTVRA will try to make a class for those cars it will fail because it was to late. In utrvra eye's it has tried to keep old utv around but class fails everytime so why try it again when everyone is going to want to race the latest new utv anyways. You split class for 2016 what about 2017 will there be enough old cars still out there to race to make a separate class, history says no. How do you change history in this other classe is the? Only answer that I can come up with is to build a better foundation.
This reminds me of when I used to race my Rhino that I dumped tons of money into. I had well over 4k into the engine just to keep up with a stock rzr 800. Was that fair? No. Did I win? Sometimes, but I was out racing and I couldn't afford to get a rzr or a teryx.
To be honest I couldn't even afford the 1000 when it came out, fortunately the bank could for me.
To be honest I couldn't even afford the 1000 when it came out, fortunately the bank could for me.
The part I don't get about this argument is the guys who are under powered with an NA car currently that refuse race in the slower class but what to force the others who would prefer to race with the big boys also. I'm fine racing in the slow poke class as long as I'm racing. I have zero interest in building a whole new car or even swapping my fresh Sparks motor that no way makes 130hp. It is faster then stock, but alot more in the middle then top speed.
Why cant we run a turbo class that, I'm sure most of the fast or sponsored guys will run in and have a NA class that runs also. You all would be fools to think there wont be a spoken or unspoken UTV overall winner. I can guarantee if I race the slow class and I was for some reason able to win overall I would be telling everyone, I doubt the turbo guys will brag about winning over the NA guys. If I'm not mistake the TT and the class 1 buggies work this same way. Don't they have separate classes but they get ran together?
Maybe in a few years the NA class will be dead, but maybe at that point the dealers will stop selling the NA car and only offer the turbo. Or maybe people will buy old race cars get their feet wet. That is kind of how I started. I have zero interest in putting even more money into a class when I thought my car was top of the line last year before my first BITD race in Henderson.
Make 2 classes and let the NA guys who wanna race in the turbo class have at it. Heck if you have 2 classes let the turbo guys open them up. Stock engine specs, stock turbo, but do what you want from there. Let them eat kinda like the NA cars can do now.
Stock frame a suspension like it is now and either a modded turbo or Modded NA engine.
Why cant we run a turbo class that, I'm sure most of the fast or sponsored guys will run in and have a NA class that runs also. You all would be fools to think there wont be a spoken or unspoken UTV overall winner. I can guarantee if I race the slow class and I was for some reason able to win overall I would be telling everyone, I doubt the turbo guys will brag about winning over the NA guys. If I'm not mistake the TT and the class 1 buggies work this same way. Don't they have separate classes but they get ran together?
Maybe in a few years the NA class will be dead, but maybe at that point the dealers will stop selling the NA car and only offer the turbo. Or maybe people will buy old race cars get their feet wet. That is kind of how I started. I have zero interest in putting even more money into a class when I thought my car was top of the line last year before my first BITD race in Henderson.
Make 2 classes and let the NA guys who wanna race in the turbo class have at it. Heck if you have 2 classes let the turbo guys open them up. Stock engine specs, stock turbo, but do what you want from there. Let them eat kinda like the NA cars can do now.
Stock frame a suspension like it is now and either a modded turbo or Modded NA engine.
The rules in BITD have been consistent since 2011. No engine over 1000cc and no turbo, and the entry numbers have grew every year. Since the rule change, I know of 2 cars that have been sold (because of rules), 3 or 4 more racers that are going to pull back next year, and BWDC entrys have dropped from last year. the privateer is what make up the big numbers in the 1900 class. Most of these cars have been built between the last year to a year and a half. Most of them feel like they are getting screwed (per Jagged's questionnaire). The car count is going to drop if something different is not done. I hear, everybody wants to race in a big field, but keep the turbo cars and na cars together, and see what happens to the car count. Oh well, it is in Cassey's and Cory's hands now anyway, so I guess the discussion is over.