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COGNITO

Cognito Motorsports - Official UTVUnderground Spon
Apr 30, 2009
788
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1) This "idiot" knows "straight business" bumpers and you're right...that bumper's "straight business" has nothing do with the "business" of designing appropriately safe bumpers not only for the benefit of this class but for every other to come.

2) Geometry/Physics 101: Two like (wide) surfaces oriented in a parallel fashion will 'meet' much more forgivingly than a narrow force meeting another in a perpendicular manner (no matter how the impacted surface may be designed).



3) Calling people names or referring to their loved ones in a derogatory manner for simply questioning your (frankly indefensible) frame design is a direct reflection on your entire team. sponsors and one manufacturer in particular. As has already been mentioned (as if it had to be):
The incompetence exhibited by even large corporations to push for safety in the sport has absolutely nothing to do with those IN IT pushing to make it safe by only building what is.
An eight year old driving a rocket ship that doesn't even meet specs is not suddenly "OK" if nothing comes of it or "the rules" aren't even being followed or competently crafted in the first place.
Playing dumb is not dumb *nor will it be excused as such* when the dust surrounding tragedy settles.



(Newsflash):
We (fans) can vote with our dollars just like anybody else.
When the manufacturers, sponsors or anybody else in this sport choose to sit idly (silently) by while the fans are constantly crucified over even the most obvious of safety concerns or any insistence that racers THEMSELVES unite around safety vs simply playing stupid?

Our loyalty to ANY brand or product has long ago been compromised.
Newsflash, you came into my thread and talk crap. Ya you can throw your opinion around anywhere, but that doesn't mean you should. Have some respect.

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It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
371
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(start @ 1:30 and pay attention at 2:45)

...here are some of my fellow "old guys" explaining basic frame design (not to mention physics) for those who care $.02 as to anyone else on a race course not to mention those in the cage.

Isn't it strange that not one single "old fart" or "idiots" who have spent their entire lives or careers designing/studying SAFE racing frame designs...has ever ONCE referred to that noble pursuit as being similar to designing "war hammers"?

"Respect" is all about listening to those possibly older than yourself and not discounting anything that you see, hear or learn.

The problem here stems from there being absolutely nothing in the above video which any class organizer, team owner, manufacturer, sponsor or even fan doesn't know from simple common sense already.

Merely an "opinion" and nothing else???

Then why won't the 1900 class "safety director" not even publicly name every so-called (gray-haired?) offroad safety industry "expert" advising this sport at the present time...not to mention those updating/re-writing the basic safety/design rules for 2017?

"Old people" aren't shy about these things (see the video above) so let's hear from them if they ever truly existed.
 

tatum

Hans Solo - 2009 UTV Baja 500 & 1000 Winner - UTVU
Feb 10, 2009
1,450
198
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arizona
With all due respect that video is worthless for offroad racing! We aren't racing on smooth paved roads and you cant have crumple zones. Offroad race cars often crash and keep racing and many take hard hits front and rear with no other cars involved and continue on.
 
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It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
371
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With all due respect that video is worthless for offroad racing! We aren't racing on smooth paved roads and you cant have crumple zones. Offroad race cars often crash and keep racing and many take hard hits front and rear with no other cars involved and continue on.
Excellent response albeit well anticipated.

So let's now finally/publicly consult off-road engineers, designers and NASCAR's safety peers to both analyze and discuss the differences or how research already out there relates to both current or future larger truck class design standards and certainly the much more popular/smaller/much more dangerous UTVs raced presently.

The problem with that?

Every professional "old guy" (or gal) will immediately ask every single manufacturer, class organizer, team owner and sponsor but one question before they ever waste their time and invaluable experience on any of them:

Are your goals aligned with making the next "Mad Max" racing series or getting everybody home safe every single night?

NASCAR believes in the former.
Their sponsors, team owners and the general public supporting every single one of them will not have it any other way either.
 

tatum

Hans Solo - 2009 UTV Baja 500 & 1000 Winner - UTVU
Feb 10, 2009
1,450
198
63
arizona
Again comparing apples to oranges. Nascar is a very controlled environment even stopping when it starts to sprinkle. The average Joe also has little to no chance of ever getting on the race track AND people still die doing it.
My goals are to keep racing as long as I can and still be able to retire at 65. I realize when I am racing in Baja that it is dangerous ang help could be hours away. It is a risk that I take because I love to do it and enjoy the challenge. I am still probably taking a bigger risk driving on the highway to get there.
 
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XPirate

Active Member
Sep 9, 2011
794
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Bakertucky
Am I the only one that wonders when this guy will realize we are tired of the "nanny state" We are voting the nanny's out left and right, it's part of the reason most of the guys and girls race off-road. Look at the Baja 1000 winner in a UTV, follow his background, read his build... or maybe the previous Baja 1000 or 500 UTV winner. These guys took the initiative to build their own race program, then get sponsors based upon results. No one forced them to build a car the way the "sponsor" wanted, their cars were already built and they were already taking risks on their own. No racing organization has cared about safety until a "GOV" steps in. safety companies and devices have been around, it's up to the individual to use them. Hell, Dale Earnhardt could have used a Hans device, He Chose Not Too, his choice, Chevy or Childress didn't tell him not to wear one, he chose. Maybe your legacy would be more appreciated on the Chevy forum or the Ford forum, Hell, Toyota has killed a bunch of people this past year...
 
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It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
371
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"...Again comparing apples to oranges. Nascar is a very controlled environment even stopping when it starts to sprinkle. The average Joe also has little to no chance of ever getting on the race track AND people still die doing it..."
Please quit attempting to change the topic.
"The average Joe" isn't racing 1900 class cars...nor does he possess any inherent moral responsibility to keep "war hammer" designs off of a 1900 class racing course.
"Average Joes" don't 'name' their front bumpers...nor would they even so much as mention such a fact to anybody with any responsibility for safety in the real world.

"...My goals are to keep racing as long as I can and still be able to retire at 65. I realize when I am racing in Baja that it is dangerous ang help could be hours away. It is a risk that I take because I love to do it and enjoy the challenge. I am still probably taking a bigger risk driving on the highway to get there.
Nice redirect (again) away from the physics of a crash and proper racing frame design no matter where that crash may occur. You either care about making these cars safer for the next generation or you don't.

"Poo-poohing" the research already done for this class will most certainly haunt it.

 

It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
371
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Am I the only one that wonders when this guy will realize we are tired of the "nanny state" We are voting the nanny's out left and right, it's part of the reason most of the guys and girls race off-road.
A "nanny" raises children when their parents no longer feel that it is their responsibility to do so.
The 1900 class 'family' was never 'raised' by anybody with even the slightest interest in safety from the very beginning. If you are saying that (cough) "grown ups" are attracted to this?
Guess why.

"...Look at the Baja 1000 winner in a UTV, follow his background, read his build... or maybe the previous Baja 1000 or 500 UTV winner. These guys took the initiative to build their own race program, then get sponsors based upon results. No one forced them to build a car the way the "sponsor" wanted, their cars were already built and they were already taking risks on their own...
..and your point regarding safe frame design...is what?

"...No racing organization has cared about safety until a "GOV" steps in. safety companies and devices have been around, it's up to the individual to use them. Hell, Dale Earnhardt could have used a Hans device, He Chose Not Too, his choice, Chevy or Childress didn't tell him not to wear one, he chose...
Gather around, kids...'This' ^^^^^^ is how you BUILD a racing legacy for your own.

I think you're right, XPirate.
When an 8-year old races an unsafe 'monster car'...and nearly everybody is either supportive of or afraid to speak of it?

Nobody does care.
 

COGNITO

Cognito Motorsports - Official UTVUnderground Spon
Apr 30, 2009
788
197
43
Excellent response albeit well anticipated.

So let's now finally/publicly consult off-road engineers, designers and NASCAR's safety peers to both analyze and discuss the differences or how research already out there relates to both current or future larger truck class design standards and certainly the much more popular/smaller/much more dangerous UTVs raced presently.

The problem with that?

Every professional "old guy" (or gal) will immediately ask every single manufacturer, class organizer, team owner and sponsor but one question before they ever waste their time and invaluable experience on any of them:

Are your goals aligned with making the next "Mad Max" racing series or getting everybody home safe every single night?

NASCAR believes in the former.
Their sponsors, team owners and the general public supporting every single one of them will not have it any other way either.
You obviously have no experience on bumper to bumper contact. And just because someone names a bumper for fun, doesn't make the bumper more or less 'dangerous' in design. Next time you are at the desert raves,take a look at front and rear bumpers in any class and you will have an ahhha moment

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tatum

Hans Solo - 2009 UTV Baja 500 & 1000 Winner - UTVU
Feb 10, 2009
1,450
198
63
arizona

Please quit attempting to change the topic.
"The average Joe" isn't racing 1900 class cars...nor does he possess any inherent moral responsibility to keep "war hammer" designs off of a 1900 class racing course.
"Average Joes" don't 'name' their front bumpers...nor would they even so much as mention such a fact to anybody with any responsibility for safety in the real world.



Nice redirect (again) away from the physics of a crash and proper racing frame design no matter where that crash may occur. You either care about making these cars safer for the next generation or you don't.

"Poo-poohing" the research already done for this class will most certainly haunt it.
The average Joe is racing this class, you shouldn't speak on stuff you know nothing about. The turbo class winner at the 1000 started out just like me racing Rhinos in the local series. He built a Rzr in his dads 4x4 shop, showed up at a BITD race and was fast and got sponsors. Same with the majority in this class.
Who cares if Cognito names their cars or their front bumpers? You dont know them and have know idea what kind of people they are.
Like I said your google search for a Nascar chassis doesn't work for offroad. If it wasn't for the fact that you already know everything you would know this.
BTW if you hurry and turn on CBSSN you can watch the 1000 and have a whole lot more to whine about.
 

Glamisfan

Active Member
Oct 26, 2009
671
103
43
imperial valley


Please quit attempting to change the topic.
"The average Joe" isn't racing 1900 class cars...nor does he possess any inherent moral responsibility to keep "war hammer" designs off of a 1900 class racing course.
"Average Joes" don't 'name' their front bumpers...nor would they even so much as mention such a fact to anybody with any responsibility for safety in the real world.



Nice redirect (again) away from the physics of a crash and proper racing frame design no matter where that crash may occur. You either care about making these cars safer for the next generation or you don't.

"Poo-poohing" the research already done for this class will most certainly haunt it.

You are such a complete ass! The subject here is an excellent car built by one of the top builders, not your personal take on off road safety! (See the thread title if you need help understanding this)

The "war Hammer" doesn't mean some illegal racing attachment. It's named that because there's a lot of slower traffic that they have to make it through on the way to winning, and their front bumper has to be strong enough to last through end of the race while being used repeatedly!

Get off your high horse!
 
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It'sYourLegacy

Banned Por Vida
Mar 29, 2015
371
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You obviously have no experience on bumper to bumper contact. And just because someone names a bumper for fun, doesn't make the bumper more or less 'dangerous' in design. Next time you are at the desert raves,take a look at front and rear bumpers in any class and you will have an ahhha moment
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Prediction:
The very next time that nerfing takes the center stage in this class (see V2R in 2015 http://www.utvunderground.com/forum/index.php?threads/who-wins-v2r.18133/page-7 )...
...and (again) when every single camera somehow fails at that very moment...
...the lack of support received in this thread for anything resembling reason will stop.

If you guys like nerfing and like even more your race organizer turning a blind eye to it...fine. The technology is already there to put an end to it. If you don't like actual footage replacing "he said/they said" more power to you.

Yet (please) don't force some random racer to pay dearly for your flat out lazy unwillingness to build frames and bumpers around those two facts or to standardize whatever you all come up with for your kids racing these cars someday at the very least.

For heavens sakes make them proud of something that you all choose to leave behind for the benefit of both them and this sport.
 

COGNITO

Cognito Motorsports - Official UTVUnderground Spon
Apr 30, 2009
788
197
43
Prediction:
The very next time that nerfing takes the center stage in this class (see V2R in 2015 http://www.utvunderground.com/forum/index.php?threads/who-wins-v2r.18133/page-7 )...
...and (again) when every single camera somehow fails at that very moment...
...the lack of support received in this thread for anything resembling reason will stop.

If you guys like nerfing and like even more your race organizer turning a blind eye to it...fine. The technology is already there to put an end to it. If you don't like actual footage replacing "he said/they said" more power to you.

Yet (please) don't force some random racer to pay dearly for your flat out lazy unwillingness to build frames and bumpers around those two facts or to standardize whatever you all come up with for your kids racing these cars someday at the very least.

For heavens sakes make them proud of something that you all choose to leave behind for the benefit of both them and this sport.
no cameras failed, it was 8 hours into the race and batteries nor memory cards last forever. FYI you should already know since you hover around here that George Felix whined to the race organizer about us nerfing him, we got red flagged and put on probation. Luckily that was only about 4 hours into the race and batteries and sd cards were not done yet, once i showed the video to everyone and the race organizer, everyone laughed at George Felix for being a sissy. We clearly gave him time to move over, it was a safe bump and a safe pass. Someone of your self proclaimed knowledge should have the common sense to look at the whole picture, unless...
 

facteryfmf

Looking For a Few Good Men - UTVUnderground Approv
Feb 8, 2009
2,066
365
83
40
Phoenix
Prediction:
The very next time that nerfing takes the center stage in this class (see V2R in 2015 http://www.utvunderground.com/forum/index.php?threads/who-wins-v2r.18133/page-7 )...
...and (again) when every single camera somehow fails at that very moment...
...the lack of support received in this thread for anything resembling reason will stop.

If you guys like nerfing and like even more your race organizer turning a blind eye to it...fine. The technology is already there to put an end to it. If you don't like actual footage replacing "he said/they said" more power to you.

Yet (please) don't force some random racer to pay dearly for your flat out lazy unwillingness to build frames and bumpers around those two facts or to standardize whatever you all come up with for your kids racing these cars someday at the very least.

For heavens sakes make them proud of something that you all choose to leave behind for the benefit of both them and this sport.
That was Cody and I incident. I'm not even a part of Cognito anymore so no need to keep blaming them for that. Trust me, I wish the video was there. I ate rocks for a long ass time down that powerline road. I think everyone now knows that car is much faster than most all other cars are (and were). Tire to tire contact simply happened. Any team I'm on, I'm out to win. And I certainly wouldn't have thrown the race only 200 miles into a 550 mile long race. Hence why we still won
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
970
310
63
What ever happens to this build? What happened to the Ragland's racing in the UTV class? I would have figured we would have seen them entered in the UTVC, even if in the previous car they did with Joey.
 

COGNITO

Cognito Motorsports - Official UTVUnderground Spon
Apr 30, 2009
788
197
43
What ever happens to this build? What happened to the Ragland's racing in the UTV class? I would have figured we would have seen them entered in the UTVC, even if in the previous car they did with Joey.
They raced the mint, had the same issues we were having. Their next race is Baja 500


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