Keeping class 1900 growing

[motive]

So with all the threads going on that cross back and forth between Cory and turbos and tires and 5 speed transmissions the has been a lot of negative talk. Some arguments, some venting and complaining. There has also been some speculation of the demise of the utv class. I for one think that there is a lot of future and potential for the class. Without getting off on another negative thread, I think we can kick around some ideas of how to keep the class well stocked with talent and great competition for years to come.

I first started to think about this after reading a thread on race-dezert about if factory money will ever come back to desert racing. Someone made the comment that the utv class is the only class that does get factory support. We are pretty fortunate that there is the possibility that a team can work hard and get to the point that a manufacturer will step in and offer them a new car or any other number of benifits. Sims is one particular racer that comes to mind that has made it happen and not by throwing ungodly amount of money into his program. So with that dream in mind of someday being a "factory" racer, what are some of the GOOD things that we have going for us in this class and what can we do to keep manufacturers, and aftermarket companies interested in utv racing. And what can we do to bring more interest from outside companies? What can we do as utv racers AND fans to make the dream more accessible to future racers and spectators?

 

[motive]

One thing that I have thought about is that any company that does invest money, whether it be directly to a racer, sponsoring a race, or paying for utv underground to make a video is that they are looking for a return on the investment. We need to tell them we appreciate it. It doesn't matter if you race a can-am, you should be greatful that polaris has invested so much to bring desert racing mainstream. Even if you aren't sponsored by a company or even race you can tell the dudes at the dealership or camp polaris or wherever that you saw their stuff. That their marketing is reaching you. And thank your sponsor every once in a while. There are several racers I follow on instagram that are well supported by sponsors. Some of those racers make posts about everything BUT the companies that stuck there neck out for them. Other seem to over sell their sponsors but at the end of the day they are doing what their sponsor was looking for-exposure.

On that note, I also think many racers throw their sponsors under the bus every race. This happens at tech when they ask you to sign up for contingency. Basically when you put that sticker on your car you are telling your sponsors that some one else bought real estate on your car for a lot less then they spent. It's free advertising for them unless you win! And even if you do win i have heard that it's about impossible to collect the payout. I don't see any of the factory teams making the mistake of short selling their sponsors. If we want to bring real money, support to the utv class we need to stop giving advertising away for free!

 

[acme]

The ironic part of all these threads including the one I instigated RE game changers as an "interested party" is: The UTV class is seemingly totally hung up on "factory involvement" and "factory money" and keeping special interests involved and happy as opposed to the majority of racers.

In 25 years of racing cars we have had sponsors, and a lot of support for which we are thankful. I doubt the grand total of stuff/$'s we received came close to 10-15% of our total expenditure for racing. We race within a budget (and a lot of times exceeded it) but the fact is we race on our dime as do 99.5% of the teams racing. And we race because we love to desert race. Yet the UTV class is the only class that seems to think, without the factory backing there would be no UTV class? That w/o the factory backing guys would not race and the class wouldn't exist?

Why is this class hell bent on kissing the manufacturers asses as well as everyone seems to bend over backwards to appease a few who have their own agendas? Considering I'll bet 99% of the racers in the class pay for their vehicles and parts, and the fact that very little; if any, industry money trickles down to 99% of the racers: Why be so hung up on the idea that they are needed to grow the class?

A few questions and some food for thought:

- Would you as a racer still race a UTV without the factories involvement in the class?

- What happens when the bubble bursts (again) and the marketing isn't worth the expenditure or the economy take a plunge: Will you still race a UTV?

- How can the class have one individual that seemingly dictates the sport-class and seemingly across all sanctioning bodies?

- Why does a class allow the rules to be dictated by the manufacturers releases as opposed to common sense, competition or the racers, when it is in the majorities best interest to keep the rules static for a period of time to continue the growth? Example: How can a model that was unavailable to the public as well as being 2016 model, be allowed to compete in 2015?

- How can racers expect the class to continue to grow when obsolescence of equipment is predetermined by the rules or lack of firm rules?

We sold our car and we're considering the UTV class based on competitiveness and what was rumored to be a realistic budget. But until the rules are consistent and figured out, so that we can race on our dime and within our budget: It doesn't make sense for us. Oddly, we do not base our decisions on anyone else's involvement or anticipated support (tried that with TrophyLite and don't care for the HOA mentality). We base our decision on: Does the class and vehicle work for us and can we be competitive given our resources and capability. Example: We could afford to buy a used mediocre TT or Class 1 but it's not what we want to race and we know it'd be out of our budget to be competitive... For us; given the current state of the UTV class: We are better off going to class 10 where we know the hardware will last and no single entity, manufacturer or special interest is the primary focus when considering rules and rules changes. and how the class is run.

With growth in mind: How many perspective racers look at this mess and think forget it? Then based on comments made from new racers or people with builds in process and the fact none of their concerns matters and think , forget it. Looking at it from the outside as an interested party, it seems it needs an enima in order to continue to grow...

IMHO If you want the class to continue to grow; the racers will need a voice and the rules will have to make sense without constant change to appease the special interests. You guys have/had a good thing going but it seems that as is, it's spinning around the bowl faster and faster.

Thoughts from someone who considered the class

 

[motive]

Acme, thanks for once again complaining about everything that has been going around in so many other threads. If you are really considering racing this class why don't you tell us what is appealing about it? I don't think everyone is hell bent on factory monew but I'm sure it plays into it. If not the possibility of a major sponsorship, how about things like polaris's racer program? As far as I understand, they offer some pretty good discounts on parts and maybe even cars?? You think anything like that exists in any other class? It's not everything but I'm sure it helps many teams.

I'll say that one thing that does make this class so exciting it that there is always something new. New faces, new machines, new ideas. Ya, there is two sides to the coin on the new model machines every year but it does make it fun to see what Johnny will bring to the next race.

The whole point of this thread was to be constructive instead of another bitch fest about the way things are. There are things we can do within the current structure (flawed as it may be) that can help the class. For example what Joey did with the UTVWC. What a cool event. Like it or hate it, Joey tried to use the land rush start to bring desert racing to the spectators. I think there is a lot more that we could do with some out of the box thinking. I'd love to see an even like the redbull motocross strait rythem compatition for utvs. SxSs going side by side (see what I did there) through woops and jumps would be awsome and with the right promoter could probably land some support from an outside company like Redbull. All things that would make racing a utv that much cooler.

 

[acme]

You asked a question: I gave a response and perspective as one who was interested in joining the class. You win, play through...

 

[jakecarver91]

Kept that positive for a few hours at least.... I'm a new racer to the BITD PRO UTV class with no factory backing and doing it because I love the sport. However I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't seeking factory support. I guarantee you that any other class that has the opportunity of factory involvement would be worried about keeping their involvement. Not only have these companies helped our class but they have helped desert racing as a whole. What's wrong with doing what you love and trying to get a manufacturer to help support doing what you love? Nothing in my opinion... With that being said I think whatever it takes to keep a class that is easy to get into is the key. It's simple economics, easy entry and exit of a market keeps competition high.... Right now just about anyone with a little bit of extra cash can go buy a Utv, build it or have it built, and race the pro Utv class. That's why I started, I built my own car, it was easy to get out there and give it a shot, and I feel like I can be competitive. Yeah I have a lot less resources and money than most in the class, but the real reason that I am still racing is because it was easy to get out there an have a good time and now I'm hooked. The more utvs that the "premier" pro class, aka BITD pro Utv class allows to race, the easier it is to get into, and the more competition there will be. That's just my opinion. I still however agree that the racers need more of a say in the rules....


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[george.felix]

Kept that positive for a few hours at least.... I'm a new racer to the BITD PRO UTV class with no factory backing and doing it because I love the sport. However I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't seeking factory support. I guarantee you that any other class that has the opportunity of factory involvement would be worried about keeping their involvement. Not only have these companies helped our class but they have helped desert racing as a whole. What's wrong with doing what you love and trying to get a manufacturer to help support doing what you love? Nothing in my opinion... With that being said I think whatever it takes to keep a class that is easy to get into is the key. It's simple economics, easy entry and exit of a market keeps competition high.... Right now just about anyone with a little bit of extra cash can go buy a Utv, build it or have it built, and race the pro Utv class. That's why I started, I built my own car, it was easy to get out there and give it a shot, and I feel like I can be competitive. Yeah I have a lot less resources and money than most in the class, but the real reason that I am still racing is because it was easy to get out there an have a good time and now I'm hooked. The more utvs that the "premier" pro class, aka BITD pro Utv class allows to race, the easier it is to get into, and the more competition there will be. That's just my opinion. I still however agree that the racers need more of a say in the rules....


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My guess is in a field of 45 cars maybe 7-8 (15%) get factory money? That leaves 37-38 that pay most or all their own way.

 

[tatum]

My guess is in a field of 45 cars maybe 7-8 (15%) get factory money? That leaves 37-38 that pay most or all their own way.

Plus a free car every year. Free shocks, suspension, wheels and tires, and can sell last years car to pay for this years entry.

 

[george.felix]

I believe Johnny got two cars this year. It's only great for a few guys.

 

[Blue Coyote]

My take from someone who has seen classes destroyed. I completely get Acme's point -who wants to jump into a build only for it to be obselete when the next gizmo comes out.

1. Rules package that keeps the completion level somewhat even. They need to be verifiable and consistent.

2. Rules that do not change every time a manufacture offers up a new gizmo. And new mid year / next year models either run unlimited or wait. They need to be set in stone and kept that way for at least 2 years.

3 Allow drivetrain up dating - if it's the same chassis pivot points, allow the new HP motors/clutch/flux capacitor. Allow NA cars to install turbos, DCT trans when they come out, etc.

I get each manufacture wants the latest and greatest out there, but those in charge of the class (a truly thankless position) need to consider the long term outlook and viability of the class.


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[Johnny]

I believe Johnny got two cars this year. It's only great for a few guys.

Why do you believe that ? did it come to you in a dream ? did you hear it at the Titty Bar ? where you practicing rolling your car and hit your head ?

 

[george.felix]

Why do you believe that ? did it come to you in a dream ? did you hear it at the Titty Bar ? where you practicing rolling your car and hit your head ?

Read it in the Utv cheater car monthly.....was on the cover. I guess can't believe everything u read.

 

[Johnny]

Oh yes my Favorite Publication ... I think I was having sex with my mail lady that day and she forgot to leave my issue ... but I did get the UTVRacing Crybabys Weekly I and saw you where yet again the centerfold.. right after that I was over at www.whoknerfedthefuckoutofgeorge.com and watched yet another video of you not moving over ..

 

[george.felix]

Thanks for sharing.....knowing u had sex with a women puts rumors to rest.

 

[BiggJim]

Lmmfao @ Johnny!!

 

[facteryfmf]

I'm just here for the gang bang.

 

[Bret901]

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[NIKAL]

Well this thread went to shit!

Regarding what Motive said about contingency, I have spoke about this before. Heck I think I have preached this before. You need to learn how to market your team, your class & the sport. Each time anyone puts a contingency decal on their car solely for the hopes of getting that contingency gift certificate is not only hurting their sponsors, but you are devaluing the other racers sponsorship's and the class as a whole.

If your primary sponsor who is actually paying you a set amount of money each race, found out that you put a decal on your car for free, I would bet they would not be happy, and not want to pay you for sponsorship. Why would they when they could contact BITD for free and offer a contingency plan for free. They could offer $500 to the winner and get on 20 plus cars for only the cost of the decals, and only pay if one of those cars wins the race. Meanwhile they were advertised on 20 cars and might not have to pay out a dime if the winner does not have their sticker. I bet I could be a dick and call some of your guys bigger sponsors and share this with them and get them to not only bail on your sponsorship, but do contingency and sponsor me on a Baja play trip and still be ahead! So dont devalue your paying sponsorship's on your car for a cheezy $100 Gift Cert.



Now another place the UTV racing community could grow is to work the Dealerships into the mix. The UTV class is pretty much the only class where the vehicle your racing is bought from a dealership first. It would be great if the Manufacturers would partner with the Dealerships to sponsor teams. So instead of Polaris giving Johnny or Sims cars or money, Polaris gives a set amount to the Dealerships and the sponsorship comes through them. So for example lets say Polaris gives Chaparral Motorsports in Riverside a racing budget and its up to Chaparral to find a team or teams to support. The support can come in the form of money and parts. Then the teams would be called "Team Chaparral" and not "Smith Racing" or whatever you call your team. Think about how Supercross does it. The team names are based off the sponsorships, like Red Bull KTM, Discount Tire Kawi, Rockstar Husky, Monster Kawai, or Geico Honda

Doing this would bring the dealerships closer to the manufacture as they could have behind the scene dealership rivalries as each dealership will want to beat the other and the manufacture could offer incentives to the dealerships that are winning races or Championships. Then this would also allow dealerships the option to offer more teams support then just the few we have now. And if a dealership found a bigger value in racing then what the Manufacture is giving them, they might see it worth their investment to add more money from their own advertising budget. Also in theory a dealership could double dip as they could be selling both Polaris & Yamaha and if they got a sponsorship budget from both manufactures they could actually sponsor more teams in different brand UTV's.

This also gives the spectator the option to root or have a relationship with a dealer through racing. As it is right now you dont root for "Smith Racing" as the only ones who know Smith Racing are the Smith's and their friends. But If you saw "Team Burt Meg Mall" or Team "Ride Now Powersports" and you have bought or looked at a UTV from them, no matter the brand, you might cheer for them as that is your home town dealership. Think about how people cheer for a Energy Drink on a car or bike team. Once again to use Supercross as an example, how many do you see walking around the stadium wearing Monster Energy T shirts or hats, because its Monster or they are with Kawasaki?



And lastly and I dont know how you do this, but Desert Racing is clearly a West Coast thing, that is mostly seen in 3 states. Ca, AZ & NV. If you could figure out how to get people in the other 45 states to know and see desert racing you would instantly grow your fan base, which in turn will bring more money to the sport.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"... If you could figure out how to get people in the other 45 states to know and see desert racing you would instantly grow your fan base..."

"..What can we do as utv racers AND fans?..

All we (fans) know about desert racing is exhibited in all its awkward 'nakedness' right here. When nobody covers the race for whatever reason?...we get our race reports from the teams themselves here. We get our footage from the cars here. Virtually all of any commentary involving any desert race is here. We literally root for who we want to win each race strictly by how they act here.

If you want to grow the class and legitimize the sport?...follow the rules and quit claiming that the rules cannot possibly be followed.
Newsflash (for those who believe that Sentinel Systems are the answer for passing issues or 99.9% of racing):
There are cameras in every car (front/rear). The rule should very simply state that any team who doesn't possess FULL clearly visible footage for inspection at the end of the race should be disqualified. If nobody complains...no footage is reviewed. If you're afraid of malfunctions?..you'd better run more cameras or not break the rules.
As fans, we are sick and tired of teams 'losing' footage at 'inopportune' segments of a race. If you ran the race clean, nobody will question you. If they do?...it's between you and the rule maker. If either party is still upset?..post YOUR video and the fans will certainly shame the other racer in to revealing the only view that really matters..his front view at the same moment in time as yours.
Blow your siren all that you'd like. If you're complaining about somebody not pulling over? Then let's see what the other guy's issues were at that exact same moment in time **or** your ability to hit that button every single time that you come upon a competitor means absolutely nothing.

You want suggestions...just as long as they don't prevent you from breaking the rules.
You want to grow the fan base, sport and class..just as long as those fans are 'OK' with those who ignore and break rules.
I would not encourage a young person to follow this class for one very simple reason: they aren't getting anything out of it. Racing heroes aren't guys who win races...they're guys who win races with honor vs whatever in the heck this season can be best described as.

Bring legitimacy to the class and perhaps fans will follow with support mimicking something other than what is apparently (exclusively?) a west coast attitude towards the sport or perhaps racing in general.

 

[Whattha]

All we (fans) know about desert racing is exhibited in all its awkward 'nakedness' right here. When nobody covers the race for whatever reason?...we get our race reports from the teams themselves here. We get our footage from the cars here. Virtually all of any commentary involving any desert race is here. We literally root for who we want to win each race strictly by how they act here.

If you want to grow the class and legitimize the sport?...follow the rules and quit claiming that the rules cannot possibly be followed.
Newsflash (for those who believe that Sentinel Systems are the answer for passing issues or 99.9% of racing):
There are cameras in every car (front/rear). The rule should very simply state that any team who doesn't possess FULL clearly visible footage for inspection at the end of the race should be disqualified. If nobody complains...no footage is reviewed. If you're afraid of malfunctions?..you'd better run more cameras or not break the rules.
As fans, we are sick and tired of teams 'losing' footage at 'inopportune' segments of a race. If you ran the race clean, nobody will question you. If they do?...it's between you and the rule maker. If either party is still upset?..post YOUR video and the fans will certainly shame the other racer in to revealing the only view that really matters..his front view at the same moment in time as yours.
Blow your siren all that you'd like. If you're complaining about somebody not pulling over? Then let's see what the other guy's issues were at that exact same moment in time **or** your ability to hit that button every single time that you come upon a competitor means absolutely nothing.

You want suggestions...just as long as they don't prevent you from breaking the rules.
You want to grow the fan base, sport and class..just as long as those fans are 'OK' with those who ignore and break rules.
I would not encourage a young person to follow this class for one very simple reason: they aren't getting anything out of it. Racing heroes aren't guys who win races...they're guys who win races with honor vs whatever in the heck this season can be best described as.

Bring legitimacy to the class and perhaps fans will follow with support mimicking something other than what is apparently (exclusively?) a west coast attitude towards the sport or perhaps racing in general.

Best post I've read of yours. I'm from Oklahoma and would love to race with all you guys. No way in hell would I even consider the investment to get started, to make the journey to attend the races, bring my friends, in the current state of the class. The rules are crazy and changed all the time, and no one can agree on anything. The factory teams are set up for success, while the privateers are basically told good luck. Build a car every 6 months? Yeah right!!!! On top of trying to put together the logistics to get my posse there, fuel, and any other expenditures. Why would anyone even dare try?

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