How will the Turbo Maverick affect UTV racing?

[Kalop]

My 2 pesos would be to stick with the 1000cc normally aspirated requirement until there are enough turbos (Can Am or other mfgr) to justify modifying the current rules.

I think this is the whole debate... the current rules don't say "normally aspirated" .... do they? Its just 1000cc (or similar wording). My point is like others... Can Am stepped up, so they should be penalized for that by not allowing them to race? Or other manufacturers should step up too? And like you say as well... it's not all about HP... so let' em race the factory turbo.

 

[crazywatson]

A friend is looking into buying one. They also quoted her the non turbo model so it sounds like you can get it either way.

 

[JoeyD23]

Picture this scenario:
All the top Can-am teams race in the unlimited class with a few of the unlimited UTE's included, whilst Polaris has the class to themselves in Pro sportsman 1900. Both Mfg's. win their respective points titles while racing against their own brand.
How lack-luster does that sound?

Totally lack luster. The Can Am racers lose out the most though just because of sheer car count. We know how many Pro 1900 cars there are, no telling how many desert ready turbo Can Ams there would be but I doubt more than all the RZRS that show for Pro 1900.

 

[JoeyD23]

A friend is looking into buying one. They also quoted her the non turbo model so it sounds like you can get it either way.

You can get it either way.

 

[JoeyD23]

Those naturally aspirated built engine Mark Queen has in allot of cars out there are making e hell of allot more hp then the new can am. Polaris guys are just shivering in there boots that they might get beat. Lol

I doubt anyone is shivering. It's just a discussion of rules, where you do it don't draw the line and if you don't what it opens up. In my opinion this has been the single biggest nightmare for UTV racing is the constant restructuring of race classes due to the relentless progression from the OEMs. It's a good problem but it's very difficult to manage at the race level.

 

[Bajaxp]

I doubt anyone is shivering. It's just a discussion of rules, where you do it don't draw the line and if you don't what it opens up. In my opinion this has been the single biggest nightmare for UTV racing is the constant restructuring of race classes due to the relentless progression from the OEMs. It's a good problem but it's very difficult to manage at the race level.

Very well said JD.

It is a philosophical question of whether the OEM dictate the rules to the racers or the other way around. There are pros and cons to each. In motocross, the OEM's aren't making 750cc single cylinder dirt bikes to race in the 450 class, they are making 450cc dirt bikes to race in the 450 class.

What will make our class faster is larger O.D. tires and better transmissions. Turbos, schmerbos.

I personally don't care if the turbos race against us in the Pro UTV class or not. It is the president that it sets and to politics that it entices. As you said, if Polaris came out with a turbo 1000 and wanted to race it in the Pro UTV class everyone would have a phucking 12 pound BABY right on the spot!

My two tacos...I mean two cervesas, doh...never mind.

 

[Kalop]

All info. I can find is GUESSING.. but it appears this is LOW boost and CanAm has it detuned. So lets say turbo factory mav is allowed in 1000cc pro class.. what if simple ecu reflash bumped HP up to 140+hp with electronic waste gate control I could see as possible, no? Do they have racing rules against ECU reflashes or just retuning, etc. ? Man, this opens up a whole can of worms the more you look at it.

 

[JoeyD23]

All info. I can find is GUESSING.. but it appears this is LOW boost and CanAm has it detuned. So lets say turbo factory mav is allowed in 1000cc pro class.. what if simple ecu reflash bumped HP up to 140+hp with electronic waste gate control I could see as possible, no? Do they have racing rules against ECU reflashes or just retuning, etc. ? Man, this opens up a whole can of worms the more you look at it.

No rule on ECU re flash

 

[Bajaxp]

All info. I can find is GUESSING.. but it appears this is LOW boost and CanAm has it detuned. So lets say turbo factory mav is allowed in 1000cc pro class.. what if simple ecu reflash bumped HP up to 140+hp with electronic waste gate control I could see as possible, no? Do they have racing rules against ECU reflashes or just retuning, etc. ? Man, this opens up a whole can of worms the more you look at it.

ECU reflash is ok, and I am ok with it. All I am saying is that I have been in the Pro UTV class since 2006 and what has made it great is, consistent rules, great people and support from the media, sanctioning body(s) and the manufacturers. We need to make good decisions, with the goal of growing Pro UTV racing in mind.

 

[Patt107]

So if a OEM comes out with a UTV that has a V8 would you still feel the same way since its "stock"? lol

As long as it's 1000cc otherwise it's not a utv lol
Pat

 

[badassmav]

The stock Maverick is normally aspirated, while the turbo version is a factory option. If the stock Maverick was only produced with a turbocharger, than these are valid arguments. The rulebook clearly lists the classes allowed to have a turbo charger, and our class is not included. Allowing any version of a turbocharged engine other than what is delivered on a base model opens a door in our class that is the beginning of the end of our comfort zone, and the level playing field we all have grown accustomed to. The exclusion to this would be if the major brands in our class ALL have factory supplied turbos. Then, I agree to allow turbochargers into our class. Then, the scale then would again tilt towards the best design and package as offered by the manufacturer.

 

[Bajaxp]

The stock Maverick is normally aspirated, while the turbo version is a factory option. If the stock Maverick was only produced with a turbocharger, than these are valid arguments. The rulebook clearly lists the classes allowed to have a turbo charger, and our class is not included. Allowing any version of a turbocharged engine other than what is delivered on a base model opens a door in our class that is the beginning of the end of our comfort zone, and the level playing field we all have grown accustomed to. The exclusion to this would be if the major brands in our class ALL have factory supplied turbos. Then, I agree to allow turbochargers into our class. Then, the scale then would again tilt towards the best design and package as offered by the manufacturer.

We are in violent agreement!

 

[motive]

Reid is absolutly correct on the rules. You can't just look at the UTV rules (BITD) and come to the conclusion that it says nothing about turbos so therefore it should be permitted. If you read the ENTIRE rulebook you would find the following:

SCR33: TURBOCHARGERS
Turbocharges only permitted on gasoline-powered vehicles in classes listed
below.
Special Note: Ford Production EcoBoost turbocharged V6 gasoline engine
allowed in Class 7200, 8000 and 8100 only.
Factory installed or aftermarket turbochargers are permitted in the following
classes: 1400, 1500.

Its a little naive to just say its factory so it should be permitted. Manufacturers in all forms of motorsports have models that you can get "factory" that don't fit in certain classes for one reason or another. I'm sure CanAm knew the rules before they decided to up the HP wars in this manner. If the target market for their HP King was desert racers they would have found the HP in another way. No, they are marketing to duner and the "got to have the most power so I can putt around the camp in style crowd".

Now I'm in no way against progression of four wheel drive golf carts but dictating racing sanctions to change the rules to suit a particular "layout" only does one thing... drive up the cost for everyone. Allow turbos and it is going to very quickly disrupt a fairly level playing field.

Want an example? Look into the history of streetbike racing. The 750cc was the Pro class for factory available bikes. Sure there were larger displacement sport bikes but the "PRO" class didn't allow them. Every boy racer in town had to have a GSXR750 and why not, they weren't much more expensive than the 600s. Along came Ducati bitching about how a V-twin couldn't compete CC for CC so they strong armed a displacement increase for the twins. After that they dominated for a long time with Fogarty behind the handle bars. Eventually the Jap companies got a displacement increase so THEY could compete. Completely killed a once thriving class. And guess what? The OEMs base price on size of the motor even though it might only cost pennies more to produce than a smaller size. On top of that, now you have to build a new bike every year to stay competitive with the constant "progression".

So unless you want to kick off a major price climb, let the turbos race in the SR1/unlimited but leave them out of the "PRO" class. The question shouldn't just be how will the turbo effect racing, It should also be how will catering to the turbo effect the market?

 

[rupert14]

Oh come on guys, quit whining and let them race .............













In another class that will be WAY fast. I have a hunch that by Christmas there will be two if no three turbo vehicles available. With all the excitement I am guessing we can break the 50 car mark at races next year. The real question is when we will be the biggest class in offroad racing. It is hard to believe just five years ago I won a championship in this.



and one in this ...

 

[Markflexes]

Let them race without creating anymore classes. My assertion is Can Am developed the turbo option more for the recreational user (10x bigger market) with little dicks and egos who want to be the first up the hill. My feeling is reliability will suffer and any team that tries the turbo in a desert race will have all kinds of issues. As Matt says, just my 2 cervezas worth...

 

[Mitch G]

I say let them run in the 1000 class, it is a factory 1000. the other utvs should not be able to add turbos etc... if it is not a factory installed item.

 

[warlock]

I say let them run in the 1000 class, it is a factory 1000. the other utvs should not be able to add turbos etc... if it is not a factory installed item.

I AGREE ,Let them all race together and if the Turbo car proves to be a reliable contender and really starts kicking ass and takin names great, then that will force Polaris to step up. But maybe it wont fair so well either so all of the sleepless nights the Polaris guys have will be for Naught. LOL. Factory installed right. so let the chips fall where they May.

 

[SGM4Life]

I think they need there own class or run in unlimited with street bike powered cars. I would assume the other manufactures will follow and they will have enough cars to make its own class.

 

[crazywatson]

Let them race without creating anymore classes. My assertion is Can Am developed the turbo option more for the recreational user (10x bigger market) with little dicks and egos who want to be the first up the hill. My feeling is reliability will suffer and any team that tries the turbo in a desert race will have all kinds of issues. As Matt says, just my 2 cervezas worth...

Interesting correlation I didn't realize turbos and Dicks had anything to do with each other. Lol

 

[warlock]

Interesting correlation I didn't realize turbos and Dicks had anything to do with each other. Lol

So if I make mine a twin Turbo that must mean I have a innnie. Lol.