BITD Email to UTV Racers. Please Read and Respond ASAP

[JoeyD23]

This email was sent out today.


To All Best In The Desert UTV Racers,

Casey and I (Cory Sappington) would like to share our thoughts on the Turbo vs Non turbo issue. We feel that the best course of action for the 2016 season, the Pro Production UTV class should allow Non turbo, Turbo and shifter UTVs. We feel this is best for the class. 2016 will be an evaluation year and this will allow all the Manufactures to compete in the Pro Production class. Polaris, Yamaha, Can-Am and Artic Cat. We are told, Artic Cat will be reentering the Best In The Desert racing series starting at the Mint 400. It is very important to our class that we do everything we can to keep the manufactures involved in our class. So far during the 2015 season the turbo UTVs have not shown to be dominating the class. We feel splitting the class for 2016 will be counterproductive. For 2016 the current rule that states that “Pro Production class UTVs cannot race in the Unlimited class” and will be removed. The new rule will state, that if a Pro Production UTV enters the Unlimited class, that UTV must continue to race in the Unlimited class for the rest of the season and cannot switch back to Pro Production. This will allow any non-turbo UTVs, that feel they do not want to race against a turbo UTVs to race in the Unlimited class. They of course will be racing in a pro class for a championship. With all the new UTVs being released, making 2016 the evaluation year, will give all of us and the manufactures the opportunity to race together and keep the entry numbers per class high. Casey Folks and I would like to know your thoughts on the issue and if you would like to split the Pro Production class and have a turbo class and a non-turbo class? Please email Best In The Desert at [email protected] with your opinion. THIS IS NOT A VOTE; this is a survey to gather information. You must be a Driver of Record in a UTV racing in Best In The Desert for your opinion to count. Please include your race number and name when you send in your response. This survey is for Best In The Desert UTV racers only. All answers will be kept confidential. Thank you for your time and input. Feel free to call me if you have questions.

Sincerely,

Cory Sappington
Technical Inspector of Best In the Desert
602-769-6164


Would you like Best In The Desert to split the Pro Production class and have a turbo and a non-turbo class?

Yes or No

Race #: _______________

Driver or Record: ____________________

Please email response to [email protected]
OR mail to 3475 Boulder Highway, Las Vegas, NV 89121
All responses must be in by November 1, 2015

 

[Team Green]

So, now I have a question so excuse my confusion. The way I read this a Turbo can race in Pro Production but not in the Unlimited class? I know it doesn't say that but it does say a non turbo can race the unlimited class without worry of racing against Turbo's. Why is it the Unlimited class then?

Just wondering.

 

[JoeyD23]

So, now I have a question so excuse my confusion. The way I read this a Turbo can race in Pro Production but not in the Unlimited class? I know it doesn't say that but it does say a non turbo can race the unlimited class without worry of racing against Turbo's. Why is it the Unlimited class then?

Just wondering.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Why call it Unlimited anymore? lol

 

[baja specialist]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Why call it Unlimited anymore? lol

Because.... "Kinda Unlimited" does not sound as cool. LOL

 

[JoeyD23]

I hope every racer is taking this chance to not just answer the questions they asked but voice your opinion of the class as a whole!

 

[COGNITO]

this was my response

BITD,

Would you like Best In The Desert to split the Pro Production class and have a turbo and a non-turbo class?

Yes

Race #: 1918

Driver or Record: Justin Lambert

-BITD, your evaluation year should have the class split, rather than what is proposed. The majority of racers will appreciate it split for 2016. Not splitting it, I feel, will be a setback for the class as I have not found one person or customer of mine with a N/A car who is in favor of combining the turbo and n/a into same class. The feedback I get says that car counts will continue to grow if the class is split. The only people I see that are in favor of combining, are the ones already racing a turbo car. I am not sure how a turbo car racer could be proud of beating an N/A car anyway, its not an even playing field.

- Below it is stated So far during the 2015 season the turbo UTVs have not shown to be dominating the class actually Cory Sappington was dominating V2R before they had problems. On a race like V2R, comparing 2 top running teams, if one is a turbo car has no problems and the other an n/a car and has no problems. The finishing time difference in that 12 hour race will be easily a half hour, totally not an even playing field.

-With 2 pro classes, you will also have even more OEM interest and effort. This is a no-brainer, there is 2 classes that they can exploit marketing content in. Marketing content is one of the main reasons they are involved in racing. I have yet to hear a good reason from anyone why the turbo and n/a cars should be scored together. Split the class for 2016 and call that an evaluation year.

-Also, the shifter cars should run with the CVT clutch cars, no problem with that. The issue lies only with drastic difference in the amount of power, not the type of transmission and clutch.

-Below it is stated that an n/a utv that doesn’t want to run against turbo utv’s can enter the Unlimited class so they don’t have to race against a turbo. How does that work when turbo cars are allowed to race in the unlimited class? Also it states that once you have entered the unlimited class, you cant cross back over to the pro class. Why the heck not? They are not in a championship points race anyway, they have to run all races in the same class to run for points.

-you should only have championship points for a PRO UTV N/A class, and a PRO UTV TURBO class. Unlimited and sportsman classes should be combined and this is not a championship points chase class.

 

[bluediamond]

Here is what I am not understanding. Not one "Pro Team" building a new race car that chooses a Can Am or Polaris will choose to build a new N/A car in the next few years i wouldnt think. I've already seen atleast 4 or 5 new BITD polaris turbo builds on social media in the last few weeks. I would bet by the the first race of 2017 Polaris turbo cars will outnumber Polaris N/A cars. With that being all said why dilute the Pro class by having two champions ? From a fans perspective its just plain confusing as to why your crowning two Pro champions. Maybe I'm way off but I just think you guys are making a mistake by trying to keep one manufacturers car viable when in reality there won't be more than a handful of polaris N/A cars racing in two years. One Pro Production Champion with all four manufacturers fighting for the crown will be way more fun to watch too. Someone tell me where I'm going wrong here. I respect the hell out of Justin so i have to think im missing somthing obvious . I don't see how the option above makes the class better. It's perfect now. Production pro and unlimited. That's the way it should stay. I can't wait to see what RG brings to the Mint. Horsepower isn't everything in off road racing.

 

[COGNITO]

if the rules went my way, in 2016 we would probably have 30 N/A cars in one class, and 15 turbo cars in the turbo class, then probably a half dozen in the unlimited/sportsman class. By this time next year, we would have no regrets and maybe 2017 there is some other step. I am forecasting that with a mixed class, privateers will be pissed and the car count will shrink, and if they are not pissed at the start of the season, wait till the 2nd or 3rd race into the season.

I am fighting for the privateer to get at least one more year out of their investment. The privateer makes up the majority of this class. I feel like mixing in the turbo cars is dumping on the N/A privateer. Plus, by mixing, there is going to be a ton more drama with tech since the turbo cars will have to be scrutinized all the time. Every single race there will be 3 threads 20 pages long on here about drama, and that is going to wear everyone out, and the confusion will be rampant. Put the turbo in its own class and let them modify stuff, less rules means its easier to police.

If the class is mixed together with lets say 30 N/A and 15 Turbo, and a turbo car wins every race next year, they wont have the respect of beating 44 other cars, only the respect of beating 14 other turbo cars. Now if an N/A car wins the championship next year against 15 other turbo cars, then they are the bad ass kings with a ton to be proud of. So why not split it up and let there be a king of N/A and a king of Turbo. This way there is 2 proud champions instead of the possibility of none.

If i build a turbo and win races next year in a mixed class, i wouldn't be proud of beating 30 N/A cars, and those 30 N/A cars should discount my win because i had an advantage.

Split it up and Cognito WILL have an N/A car in that class in 2016.

In 2016 there should be 2 elite classes, then i think in 2017 the Turbo class will develop into more of the elite class. Maybe in 2017 there are 30 turbo cars and 15 N/A cars.

 

[COGNITO]

if we were racing SuperCross, and they decided that the 250 and 450 were going to mix, that would be about like what is going on here in BITD with Turbo mixing with N/A.

 

[Bajaxp]

What has hurt off road racing is too many classes. Like five year olds in soccer when, 'everyone gets a trophy,' that is wrong. There are winners and losers. It is desert racing and so much chit can happen. Justin is not wrong, but if and when we ever get rid of Cory, then we can set the rules for the future and REALLY grow the class. And yes I will be willing to help. Collectively (not Cory standing on a pedestal proclaiming he is the Godfather of all things UTV racing related) we have worked hard to create the Pro UTV class and deserve to have 50 or 80 Utes lined up in the same class at premier races like V2R or the Baja 1000....and then it is GAME ON.

It should have been stated at the end of 2014, when Cory KNEW their was a Can Am turbo and turbos wercoming from other OEMs, that turbos would be legal in the Pro Production class in say.... 2016. This would give teams a chance to run their existing NA UTV's without a competitive disadvantage for at least a year or maybe more, then build for the future. Same goes for tires. Cory made the turbo legal when he got a turbo, and nobody else had one. He also made 32" tires the max when 32" was the max that 'HIS' tire sponsor had available. Pretty much everybody was asking for 33" tires as this is a much more common tire.

My input...Casey, are you listening?:
-Have two classes: Pro UTV and sportsman, period. (Pro production sounds lame and does nothing for the OEMs). I guarantee the OEM's will be more stoked to win in a 50+ entry class in a race like the Baja 1000 or V2R then diluted into multiple classes.

-Have three people represent the Pro UTV class for BITD. Cory used to be a good guy but as of late, has turned into a megalomaniac. Nobody agrees with him and he is currently hurting not helping the Pro UTV class in desert racing. We need to create rules that allow current builds to be relevant for an acceptable period of time, while also preparing for the new technology the UTV OEM's are bringing yearly. From what I am hearing, no OEM is screaming....'you must be running a turbo.'

-Make sure that the BITD tech inspector is not racing against and collecting funds from the very people that he is racing against. This is hurting the credibility of the BEST IN THE DESERT RACING. If I were to race class 10, I wouldn't have to race against the guy who is teching my car and making the rules...if I were racing in a Trick/Trophy truck, the same goes and I wouldn't have to submit to this same ignominy. We pay more than twice for why?

My 2 pesos!

 

[george.felix]

To All Best In The Desert


Would you like Best In The Desert to split the Pro Production class and have a turbo and a non-turbo class?

Yes or No

Race #: _______________

Driver or Record: ____________________

Please email response to [email protected]
OR mail to 3475 Boulder Highway, Las Vegas, NV 89121
All responses must be in by November 1, 2015



This seems like a simple enough question.......Glad they asked it.

 

[jaggedx]

This is an e mail that I sent to Casey before they sent out their survey e mail.
This is just my idea and could certainly be tweaked, far better than the proposal Cory has about
If you don't want to race your limited car against turbos then race in the unlimited class but then can't come back....... Talk about clear as mud!

Dear Casey

As per our conversation last week

I want to share my thoughts and some ideas about how we may structure the Utv classes to help insure continued growth and to preserve the current class population.

As you know, the Utv industry is a rapidly expanding segment in off road vehicles with several manufactures battling for supremacy.
Each model year these manufacturers are expanding their product lines and the vehicles get better and faster each season.

Polaris and can-am are the leaders right now and they both have introduced turbo charged models. These vehicles have 30-40% more horsepower than their naturally aspirated models. There are already several teams racing these models and while they have not dominated the field, it is clear that they are much quicker and faster than the n/a models.
While there are a substantial number of teams who are transitioning to new turbocharged cars there is a large number of current teams who do not want to or cannot afford a new turbo build. Many of these racers are discouraged and feel they will not be competitive racing against the turbo cars.
These racers ore the "core" of our class.

The current class structure has worked pretty well to grow this core class (Pro production). The vehicles were all pretty evenly matched and all racers felt that they could compete on a level playing field.
The "unlimited" class offered an opportunity for the racer who wanted to build "out of the box". This class never really gained any traction and only see a handful of racers. I think this is due to the great performance that the production cars offer.

I believe that keeping the Utv class more "production"based will help to continue growth.
Below is my suggestion for class structure taking all levels into consideration.

PRO PRODUCTION
(Natural aspirated)
Rules basically the same as current pro production. 1000 cc limit. Mods allowed same as current rules.

OPEN PRO PRODUCTION
All rules same as pro production but turbo chargers allowed (factory or after market) No more motorcycle or snowmobile motor swaps. Chassis rules same as pro production. Only motor swaps allowed would be
Factory update swaps.
Current unlimited cars (there are only a few of these) who want to race could be grandfathered.

SPORTSMAN

Run what you brung
Pass safety tech and looks like a Utv

I think this structure would cause a pretty even split in the class for the first couple years. It would also allow the manufactures to promote both their n/a and turbo performance models. I think that something like this will also promote class growth. It also makes all the used n/a vehicles worth more by still having a competitive venue.
It would also make tech much easier because the turbos and ecu's would no longer need to be sealed. Less restriction =less ways to cheat.

This is just my proposal but I think it strikes a great balance. Bitd is the best place to race and we want to see it continue to grow.

Thanks
Bill Schueler
Jagged X racing







Sent from my iPhone

 

[george.felix]

I like this.....Time will tell f it's perfect but seems to me too many people trying to fix already good ideas is counter productive and just muddys the water. This has all the essentials. IMO

 

[Queen Racing]

Im sorry but not separating the turbo cars from the NA cars is a JOKE!!! Just because, as Cory stated that no TURBO car has dominated YET does not mean that it is not in the very near future.. Just drive the 2 cars and tell me if there is ANY comparison! There is not!! Once the turbo cars get in the proper teams hands, they will not be in the same race!! There will be 2 races going on, the win in the turbo class, and the first place N/A finisher who is forced to race in the TURBO CLASS!!! Mid season next year, the amount of racers showing up to race will be cut in half! Just watch! Keeping these classes together will destroy the largest class in the BITD!!!!!!

 

[SimsMotorsports]

I agree with everyone that to many classes will kill the class, that is a no brainer.

I began racing BITD/SCORE last year as a privateer with no intention of being competitive against the "Big" teams (Jagged, Cognito, Coastal, MB, Murray, ect....), but I went out to see how i would stack up against them with a lesser team, no spare parts to speak of, and a very small bank account. To me it didn't matter what i was racing against, i was racing in the elite racing organization against the biggest teams and i was psyched.

That being said i would assume, but i could be wrong and usually am on here because most input is from non racers, that most everyone that races BITD/SCORE is out to race the biggest names, teams, and competition in the sport if not there are many other racing organizations that offer low cost desert racing to be a part of. If we separate the classes like what has been mentioned, most of the big teams will go to the elite class and Cognito will dominate the NA class end of story. The media, camera crews, the stories, the pictures, and the videos will follow the elite class.

As most of you are aware i will be racing a Rzr Turbo next weekend at the BWDC. I did testing for my first time yesterday with my buddy Jake in his stock powered Xp1000 (1936) Lets say at the end of the day he was pleasantly surprised on how he feels about racing his Xp1000 against my Turbo Rzr next weekend......

Since everyone is so concerned about being fair in the NA class you do realize that there are NA cars making more power than these turbo cars are, right? If Cognito wanted fair and wanted the privateer to be able to race evenly against them wouldn't they want to run a stock engine? How many of the privateers can afford a 6-8k race engine and have multiple spares at any given time laying around with a fresh rebuild every race???? Also a lot of people say they build their NA for it to be reliable, all I've noticed is a stock engine seems to be the most reliable. I would be more than happy to do a drag race against any BITD car with a built engine and my stock BITD RZR Turbo so that you all could watch me get beat in a straight line.

All that i know is that i want to race in the largest class with the most competition, period.

LETS GO RACING

 

[SimsMotorsports]

Oh and the above post is "Just my opinion" so take it with a grain of salt

 

[COGNITO]

6-8k engine build? Please!!!! My car makes 15% more than stock, 7 of that is from bolt ons. I do not have a crazy built motor.

Your turbo makes more than 30% more than a stock xp1000.

You want to race against more people even tho they are underpowered, and you are going to be proud of that? I wouldn't be.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[dezerteryx]

6-8k engine build? Please!!!! My car makes 15% more than stock, 7 of that is from bolt ons. I do not have a crazy built motor.

Your turbo makes more than 30% more than a stock xp1000.

You want to race against more people even tho they are underpowered, and you are going to be proud of that? I wouldn't be.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Might want to watch your destination Polaris interview again. Ported polished head, cams, high compression Pistons sound familiar? Built by sparks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tatum]

Queen racing already has posted that even a built motor with more hp doesnt even compare to a turbo motor which has it over a much broader range. Anybody that thinks that its not a big advantage is selling snake oil.
Cognito and Jagged could have a turbo ready to race but are putting the class first.

 

[ironworks]

Might want to watch your destination Polaris interview again. Ported polished head, cams, high compression Pistons sound familiar? Built by sparks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That ain't 30 hp. You might wanna check your facts.