Arctic Cat and Mint 400

kornfed

Active Member
May 13, 2015
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A properly set up cvt system works just fine. Everyone cries about breaking a $200 belt at the dunes. Make a $2k-$4k trans the weak link on these cars and then see how bad everyone cries when that's what they break instead of a belt. Making a game changer would be stupid for an OEM to do anyway. Why not make it a little better each year and keep selling more and more machines rather than jump straight to the top?
I don't know Jake, it took a lot of testing to get our car set up and then we blew our transmission. These cars are a little brittle in the transmission/belt area. There were 2 cars that left testing with blown transmissions. Just sayin'...

I think you left Plaster City before we put the Rustfish back on the trailer. We finally have our belt and clutch working and then we blow our transmission. I just think that the Engines are pretty solid and Yamaha seems to have a solid transmission. Why wouldn't the manufacturers want to fix that major issue. It is the major problem with the platform in my opinion. For AC, especially since they source the power from Yamaha already. Seems like a missed opportunity to make a splash.

I don't know, we have our new transmission car about ready for testing. We will see what happens...
 
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kornfed

Active Member
May 13, 2015
153
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Costa Mesa
www.tetraracing.com
Have you put your hands on the can am x3? Its no game changer. All their Pivot holes are blown out .100 larger than the bolt being used. I was blown away when i seen this.
Jim totally, I am just saying that the X3 was a properly developed car and they are pretty damn smooth. Davey on our team bought one and he is doing a build right now. The car is fast and goes over stuff really well. I just wish someone would make a transmission based car that can be really competitive in desert. I might be just a bit pissed off because we have had belt and clutch issues at every race. And we have spent a lot of money trying to get this right. Obviously spent in the wrong place, so we finally get Alba and Airdam to help us get it down and we blow our transmission putting the car on the trailer. Brittle is not good. It is time for a manufacturer to step up. My 2 cents. Worth 1 cent...
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
970
310
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So instead of wishing & waiting for a better OEM trans, why not advance the transmissions technology yourself? I know the UTV class is still new and most racing a UTV do not know much more then the UTV class. But look outside the box, as I like to say. Do you really think the limited VW classes are running VW trans internals? There not! The case is VW the internals are bad ass parts! Who is building the internals for the VW boxes? What about Fortin, Mendeola, Weddle, Xtrac etc.. And that's just the off road industry.

I know some UTV teams are starting to play with Cryogenics and that's cool. But why not reach out to trans & gear builders and talk to them. Show them what's inside a CVT trans and work with them to build better parts with better material. Maybe there's an opportunity to play with gear ratios? The UTV racing class is big enough and the aftermarket industry is even bigger, for them to see a future and profit in the UTV industry. So make some calls!
 

450grl

The First Lady of SXS - UTVUnderground Approved
Mar 15, 2009
917
104
43
The transmission in the YXZ is excellent.....if every OEM could make one that worked and lasted as well as the Yamaha one, I think it would be huge for the industry. I love the manual in the desert....and on the track....it is a huge benefit in many situations out there to be able to choose your gears, let alone never having to worry about silt beds, sand washes, or anything else that builds up heat or puts a load on a belt drive, etc. I really think it's just a matter of time before more OEMs go in that direction.
 

Skidoojunky

New Member
Aug 14, 2016
10
4
3
46
Yep. I was just going to say the same thing. Textron could pay cash for both companies today and not skip a beat. And they are widely known to be big spenders with thier recently aquired companies. With the limited information ive read on this new model Cat possibly went from worst to first in the NA Sport UTV market with this new car so I think they did pretty well.

During the buyout there was a "changing of the guards" per say at Arctic Cat. At a vintage snowmobile event earlier this winter the new President of Arctic Cat was there amongst our group and said that at their first executive meeting under Textron ownership that Arctic Cats R&D budget was immediately tripled.......things could get interesting.
 

kornfed

Active Member
May 13, 2015
153
83
28
52
Costa Mesa
www.tetraracing.com
So instead of wishing & waiting for a better OEM trans, why not advance the transmissions technology yourself? I know the UTV class is still new and most racing a UTV do not know much more then the UTV class. But look outside the box, as I like to say. Do you really think the limited VW classes are running VW trans internals? There not! The case is VW the internals are bad ass parts! Who is building the internals for the VW boxes? What about Fortin, Mendeola, Weddle, Xtrac etc.. And that's just the off road industry.

I know some UTV teams are starting to play with Cryogenics and that's cool. But why not reach out to trans & gear builders and talk to them. Show them what's inside a CVT trans and work with them to build better parts with better material. Maybe there's an opportunity to play with gear ratios? The UTV racing class is big enough and the aftermarket industry is even bigger, for them to see a future and profit in the UTV industry. So make some calls!

Nice I have a blown transmission on my work bench now. Let me see what we can do. :)
 

bluediamond

Active Member
Jun 24, 2015
300
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I understand when guys say the car belongs in the unlimited class but put the Speedcat next to the newest RMR build for Miller and tell me which car looks more like a UTV.
 
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NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
970
310
63
The transmission in the YXZ is excellent.....if every OEM could make one that worked and lasted as well as the Yamaha one, I think it would be huge for the industry. I love the manual in the desert....and on the track....it is a huge benefit in many situations out there to be able to choose your gears, let alone never having to worry about silt beds, sand washes, or anything else that builds up heat or puts a load on a belt drive, etc. I really think it's just a matter of time before more OEMs go in that direction.
Just to be fair the Yamaha Transmission had its faults too. When first released allot of people were smoking clutches which Yamaha was not covering. Then TubeWorks had to come out with a kit to make the gear ratio's more user friendly, and a better clutch oiling system. Plus they offered a gear reduction for those wanting to run a tire taller then 27 inches. But yes I agree the manual gear box is the future of the performance sport UTV machines. I still see a place for the CVT as trail riders, hill climber and those who want to have fun without the effort of shifting will still want a CVT.
 
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the stripping shop

RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 29, 2009
1,101
137
63
peoria,Az
www.strippingshop.com
I maybe wrong or right but isn't robby making a trans, and teaming up with a company to patent it to. But that probally a game changer and nobody wants to talk about it. 2nd question has the kitty cat had or have any trans problems/belt issues yet in the limited races they have done. I would say adam from airdam would now since hes a kitty cat guy in the heart. Did you ever think robby is on the game changer way because do you really think a Polaris/can am/ kitty cat want a 220hp utv to the public?
 

bluediamond

Active Member
Jun 24, 2015
300
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I maybe wrong or right but isn't robby making a trans, and teaming up with a company to patent it to. But that probally a game changer and nobody wants to talk about it. 2nd question has the kitty cat had or have any trans problems/belt issues yet in the limited races they have done. I would say adam from airdam would now since hes a kitty cat guy in the heart. Did you ever think robby is on the game changer way because do you really think a Polaris/can am/ kitty cat want a 220hp utv to the public?
This is my fathers theory as well. Manufacturers not willing to turn a gear boxed 270hp mini 10 car over to the general public. But if you allow a partner to sell a race only model you distance your self from some liability ? I dont know if this holds any water but I could see this thinking.
 
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Pballistic

Member
Aug 30, 2016
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This is my fathers theory as well. Manufacturers not willing to turn a gear boxed 270hp mini 10 car over to the general public. But if you allow a partner to sell a race only model you distance your self from some liability ? I dont know if this holds any water but I could see this thinking.
Look at what GM has done in the past. If you want a bad a$$ Corvette with 750hp you get take their driving class first... I know none of these companies are in the ballpark of GM in budgets and won't be offering a driving class in the near future, but it's a way GM got out of liability issues from people that can't drive... There is ways to do it and the easiest is to offer the turbo to the public through a catalog/ Accessories order, the other way is tune it down to 170hp and offer a 10 year warranty that is void if the tuner touches it... (kinda like GM does with the Duramax) The market is full of creative ways around liability, it's just a matter of time
 

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
2,079
452
83
Bakersfield
Jim totally, I am just saying that the X3 was a properly developed car and they are pretty damn smooth. Davey on our team bought one and he is doing a build right now. The car is fast and goes over stuff really well. I just wish someone would make a transmission based car that can be really competitive in desert. I might be just a bit pissed off because we have had belt and clutch issues at every race. And we have spent a lot of money trying to get this right. Obviously spent in the wrong place, so we finally get Alba and Airdam to help us get it down and we blow our transmission putting the car on the trailer. Brittle is not good. It is time for a manufacturer to step up. My 2 cents. Worth 1 cent...
The broken trannies I have seen have been 99% bearing failures.
 

the stripping shop

RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 29, 2009
1,101
137
63
peoria,Az
www.strippingshop.com
Look at what GM has done in the past. If you want a bad a$$ Corvette with 750hp you get take their driving class first... I know none of these companies are in the ballpark of GM in budgets and won't be offering a driving class in the near future, but it's a way GM got out of liability issues from people that can't drive... There is ways to do it and the easiest is to offer the turbo to the public through a catalog/ Accessories order, the other way is tune it down to 170hp and offer a 10 year warranty that is void if the tuner touches it... (kinda like GM does with the Duramax) The market is full of creative ways around liability, it's just a matter of time
Easiest way is to price it out of every jo,dick or harry price range, like the new corvette 100k.
 

///Airdam Clutches

Active Member
Nov 14, 2014
358
176
43
I am surprised more of you don't already know this. But Robby builds the chassis and some of the trick parts for the speedcat. It's 100% based off all the mounting points of the production car. It's just built to pass tech inspection in BITD and SCORE. It's got a race legal chassis and cage and fuel system. It has bad ass suspension parts and an alternator and all the nav stuff already wired. They wanted to build a car you can buy and finance on Thursday, put number plates on it and roll thru tech on Friday, and be race legal to race on Saturday. Yes $77,000 is high. But it's a legit build. Robby builds the chassis in house the frames are sent to Arctic cat and Arctic cat assembles the machine per order. That's what I was told but I am definitel not necessarily in the loop on who does the wiring and all. I know Robby builds the chassis but they go back to arctic cat. And arctic cat will assign it a vin. And it's a production race ready machine. It's a turbo Yamaha with 220hp and a better start to the clutch than anyone else has tried so far. Yes it's still a belt. And yes they are pretty awfully clutches. They still blow belts even with the cover off which can be easily fixed because the diameter of the clutches and throw ratio it has, it's going to be easy to make it hold a belt if the cover is designedly properly for air flow. I can clutch one and make it rock. With the gearing in the trans and clutch overdrive ratio it's geared to run 100. Robby played with the gearing in the trans and has had one well over 100 but with the cost of it eating belts because the gearing was too high in the trans. Now he has a much better overdrive ratio and it should rock when it's clutched properly. They've had a snowmobile clutch tuner doing all the work. And sleds and a Utv are simply different and have different clutch requirements. It can work. And it will work.


The NA production car is a factory built chassis that's identical to robbys just made at arctic cat. More stamped stuff rather than hand shaped chromoly. It's a production car that has robbys suspension and a powerful NA engine.

Right now it's a little more hush hush but in two months the turbo version is supposed to be released to the public.

On to belt systems. You can look at the advancements in the Utv industry lately. The suspension. The power. The stronger drivelines. These machines are going faster than ever. And yes if you don't get the clutch figured out you will hate yourself and want to burn your machine. But luckily there is one company that specializes in true desert race clutch setups. And my support to the many teams that run my stuff is second to none. The belt issues are virtually over with. The setup we developed for the NA XP1000 will literally fire belt issues. The few cars that run out full desert race setup have been literally bullet proof. Not one single belt blown in any race by any of those customers in two years. Same with the turbo maverick. We supported nearly every single maverick turbo team the last two years and the only two belts that were blown between all those teams, both had a reason and it was mechanical not clutching specific. The XPTurbo, these guys are literally blazing fast and setting mind boggling paces in these races with no belt issues once they are properly clutches. I have developed a setup and certain guidelines that if you do and follow with my setup you can virtually forget about belt issues. The new X3 as well. I have them figured out so well I think you can forget about a belt problem. It's taken a tremendous amount of time to learn the trick to desert race clutching but I can guarantee you the teams that come to me have flawless races without worrying about the belt constantly. The belt drive is quite easy. And extremely cheap from a manufacturers standpoint. The OEMs love the belt drive. It's fast. It's easy. It works. And it's cheap.


Yamaha trans was a joke when it came out. 80% of the first 6 months sales didn't make 300 miles before the clutch burnt up. And there weren't any fixes from Yamaha in sight. The aftermarket has to step up and make them reliable. You can shift it. And don't have a belt to get hot. But in racing, a cat is faster. Folks wanna look at the short course results and say the Yamaha shifter trans wins those races. WRONG the suspension geometry makes them win races. They take corners at 10+mph faster than any other machine. You can be flat out doing all your Polaris can handle and the Yamaha come drive right around you inside or outside in a corner. They set the weight perfectly and the wheel base and suspension geometry puts the weight in the right place and steers those things like a shifter cart. Shifting the trans doesn't make them fast. Their suspension allows them to take corners faster than anything else. But in woods racing and cross country racing and endurance racing and even desert racing, you can clearly see that the Yamaha is barely better than a fluke. They couldn't win a race to save their life. Hanging a banked corner at 60mph is one of the things they are good at. In an endurance race series, we have a pro lite and pro2 trophy truck driver that comes and races for fun and practice. He used to run the Polaris. And he was fast. Nobody could touch him if the car held together. Literally faster than anybody can imagine. Held the lap record at my track for two years. In a bone stock xo1000 and my clutch work. But the car falls apart around him in a 1 hour race. So this last year they went to Yamaha and got 2. He and his also pro driver dad worked on them and hired shock tuners and suspension guys and did everything they could to make it handle like they wanted. Last year at one of the cross country courses that also incorporates an old motor cross track that's been modified for UTV. While they were racing, going flat out in his Yamaha, this pro driver was getting his ass handed to him by a Rzr 900 with motor work and clutch work. I don't mean like hanging close and hard racing. I mean like skull drug and in 10 laps would have gotten lapped. In woods racing and cross country racing they don't work. They are geared too tall. The shifter makes you take your hand off the wheel. It's suspension geometry make it awkward in the rough stuff. They appeal to a great number of guys. The xyz forums are full of brand loyal lynch mob mentality Kinda guys who will execute you for saying a negative word about their beloved machine. They are good for some things. But that trans don't make them faster. A cvt is faster in every way.
 

bluediamond

Active Member
Jun 24, 2015
300
97
28
53
I am surprised more of you don't already know this. But Robby builds the chassis and some of the trick parts for the speedcat. It's 100% based off all the mounting points of the production car. It's just built to pass tech inspection in BITD and SCORE. It's got a race legal chassis and cage and fuel system. It has bad ass suspension parts and an alternator and all the nav stuff already wired. They wanted to build a car you can buy and finance on Thursday, put number plates on it and roll thru tech on Friday, and be race legal to race on Saturday. Yes $77,000 is high. But it's a legit build. Robby builds the chassis in house the frames are sent to Arctic cat and Arctic cat assembles the machine per order. That's what I was told but I am definitel not necessarily in the loop on who does the wiring and all. I know Robby builds the chassis but they go back to arctic cat. And arctic cat will assign it a vin. And it's a production race ready machine. It's a turbo Yamaha with 220hp and a better start to the clutch than anyone else has tried so far. Yes it's still a belt. And yes they are pretty awfully clutches. They still blow belts even with the cover off which can be easily fixed because the diameter of the clutches and throw ratio it has, it's going to be easy to make it hold a belt if the cover is designedly properly for air flow. I can clutch one and make it rock. With the gearing in the trans and clutch overdrive ratio it's geared to run 100. Robby played with the gearing in the trans and has had one well over 100 but with the cost of it eating belts because the gearing was too high in the trans. Now he has a much better overdrive ratio and it should rock when it's clutched properly. They've had a snowmobile clutch tuner doing all the work. And sleds and a Utv are simply different and have different clutch requirements. It can work. And it will work.


The NA production car is a factory built chassis that's identical to robbys just made at arctic cat. More stamped stuff rather than hand shaped chromoly. It's a production car that has robbys suspension and a powerful NA engine.

Right now it's a little more hush hush but in two months the turbo version is supposed to be released to the public.

On to belt systems. You can look at the advancements in the Utv industry lately. The suspension. The power. The stronger drivelines. These machines are going faster than ever. And yes if you don't get the clutch figured out you will hate yourself and want to burn your machine. But luckily there is one company that specializes in true desert race clutch setups. And my support to the many teams that run my stuff is second to none. The belt issues are virtually over with. The setup we developed for the NA XP1000 will literally fire belt issues. The few cars that run out full desert race setup have been literally bullet proof. Not one single belt blown in any race by any of those customers in two years. Same with the turbo maverick. We supported nearly every single maverick turbo team the last two years and the only two belts that were blown between all those teams, both had a reason and it was mechanical not clutching specific. The XPTurbo, these guys are literally blazing fast and setting mind boggling paces in these races with no belt issues once they are properly clutches. I have developed a setup and certain guidelines that if you do and follow with my setup you can virtually forget about belt issues. The new X3 as well. I have them figured out so well I think you can forget about a belt problem. It's taken a tremendous amount of time to learn the trick to desert race clutching but I can guarantee you the teams that come to me have flawless races without worrying about the belt constantly. The belt drive is quite easy. And extremely cheap from a manufacturers standpoint. The OEMs love the belt drive. It's fast. It's easy. It works. And it's cheap.


Yamaha trans was a joke when it came out. 80% of the first 6 months sales didn't make 300 miles before the clutch burnt up. And there weren't any fixes from Yamaha in sight. The aftermarket has to step up and make them reliable. You can shift it. And don't have a belt to get hot. But in racing, a cat is faster. Folks wanna look at the short course results and say the Yamaha shifter trans wins those races. WRONG the suspension geometry makes them win races. They take corners at 10+mph faster than any other machine. You can be flat out doing all your Polaris can handle and the Yamaha come drive right around you inside or outside in a corner. They set the weight perfectly and the wheel base and suspension geometry puts the weight in the right place and steers those things like a shifter cart. Shifting the trans doesn't make them fast. Their suspension allows them to take corners faster than anything else. But in woods racing and cross country racing and endurance racing and even desert racing, you can clearly see that the Yamaha is barely better than a fluke. They couldn't win a race to save their life. Hanging a banked corner at 60mph is one of the things they are good at. In an endurance race series, we have a pro lite and pro2 trophy truck driver that comes and races for fun and practice. He used to run the Polaris. And he was fast. Nobody could touch him if the car held together. Literally faster than anybody can imagine. Held the lap record at my track for two years. In a bone stock xo1000 and my clutch work. But the car falls apart around him in a 1 hour race. So this last year they went to Yamaha and got 2. He and his also pro driver dad worked on them and hired shock tuners and suspension guys and did everything they could to make it handle like they wanted. Last year at one of the cross country courses that also incorporates an old motor cross track that's been modified for UTV. While they were racing, going flat out in his Yamaha, this pro driver was getting his ass handed to him by a Rzr 900 with motor work and clutch work. I don't mean like hanging close and hard racing. I mean like skull drug and in 10 laps would have gotten lapped. In woods racing and cross country racing they don't work. They are geared too tall. The shifter makes you take your hand off the wheel. It's suspension geometry make it awkward in the rough stuff. They appeal to a great number of guys. The xyz forums are full of brand loyal lynch mob mentality Kinda guys who will execute you for saying a negative word about their beloved machine. They are good for some things. But that trans don't make them faster. A cvt is faster in every way.

The guys out west I dont think realize the loyal following Arctic Cat has through out the rest of the country. So many people grew up on AC sleds and ATVs. I am really looking forward to seeing what guys like Adam , who are die hards will be able to do with these cars. Those guys deserve a competitive car to start with and have been waiting forever. It will be fun to see what they can come up with.
 

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