All UTV's Adjusting Toe

[TNT]

Anyone got any good tricks to adjusting toe. I always struggle finding/using the center-line of the tire and car is hard to find. 900XP manual calls for 1/8-3/16 toe out. Why toe out? Quads we use toe in.

Mines pulling left hard figured I'd start with toe check.

 

[07fj]

Anyone got any good tricks to adjusting toe. I always struggle finding/using the center-line of the tire and car is hard to find. 900XP manual calls for 1/8-3/16 toe out. Why toe out? Quads we use toe in.

Mines pulling left hard figured I'd start with toe check.

just use the same lug of the tread on each tire for toe measurement. toe out turns better for short course, but can make it a bit drifty at high speeds, generally we set them at 0 or 1/8 in, except for short course.

 

[TNT]

Walter, I'm sure you do this more often than I. Same lug can't be symmetrical within 1/8-3/16 to start with is it?, how do they expect us to do this? Then measuring tire at 90 to the CL of car hard to find not that accurate. Got to be a better way, maybe just till it drives straight. I dunno!

 

[07fj]

Walter, I'm sure you do this more often than I. Same lug can't be symmetrical within 1/8-3/16 to start with is it?, how do they expect us to do this? Then measuring tire at 90 to the CL of car hard to find not that accurate. Got to be a better way, maybe just till it drives straight. I dunno!

actually the molds are that good.

you can use the inside to the wheel if you want. or you can put a pice of straight edge on each wheel and measure front and rear, many ways to skin a cat. do not jack it up to do this, it needs to be at ride height and same height on tire/wheel front to back.

set it, drive it, then check it again after coasting to a stop. (very little brake)

 

[TNT]

I just called local dealer out of curiosity, thinking they had some front end alignment tools…nah tape to the tire too. I like your idea of straight edge on the ground, seen some holes that look like center on the chassis skid I’ll drop to the ground to using a plumb bob draw a chalk line. I’m too anal I guess. Thx!

 

[dkiewicz]

No you're a frustrated engineer because you don't drive trains, and that's what engineers are supposed to do!!!

JK... I'm the same way. I have to analyze everything to death, and even then I'm not sure.

You could do a FMECA and figure out the statistical probability of what your prime failures will be given each method. That will at least make you be able to sleep at night knowing you did your due diligence and are not a slacker for and engineer...

You can also derive a fault tree from your primary requirements list. Just don't include double or multiple fault scenarios. Only do single credible faults and you should come out o.k.


Rocketman....


and for those wondering what FMECA is ... Failure mode, effects, and criticality analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TNT]

No you're a frustrated engineer because you don't drive trains, and that's what engineers are supposed to do!!!

JK... I'm the same way. I have to analyze everything to death, and even then I'm not sure.

You could do a FMECA and figure out the statistical probability of what your prime failures will be given each method. That will at least make you be able to sleep at night knowing you did your due diligence and are not a slacker for and engineer...

You can also derive a fault tree from your primary requirements list. Just don't include double or multiple fault scenarios. Only do single credible faults and you should come out o.k.

Rocketman....


and for those wondering what FMECA is ... Failure mode, effects, and criticality analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LMAO! That’s why I’ve been a musician so I don’t drive myself insane!! When I was a kid all I wanted to be an artist then drummer age five, what went wrong 52 years later ? I decided no $ in that for most @ age 17 college was the ticket.....Hmmmm!

Thanks for getting me back into it, back to my roots maybe I’ll get my scrupples back, just maybe!

 

[onerich]

Some times when the car pulls to one side or the other it could be a brake problem or what Dan said I think . lol.

 

[SimsMotorsports]

Take it to an alignment shop with a computerized alignment sytem. Than you can find your Caster (which would most likely cause a pull) camber, and toe numbers. Than there is no chance for error

 

[TNT]

It's an XP900 with only toe adjustment. It's pullin left pretty hard no brakes applied.

We had my lady friends Honda 04 CRV front wheel drive up on racks last night @ Pep Boys. She gets a shimmy in the steering wheel when accelerating around 45-55 mph no brakes. Rotated tires, check the ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, no rack and pinion play we can detect, no blown struts, engine mounts look ok, all good after over 100K miles. No steering dampener. Doesn't pull or anything, sears talked her into an alignment when they rotated the tires and she told them she had the shimmy. $80 rip shimmy needs to be fixed first.

Any ideas? We decided to wait till it gets worse since we cant find the prob? This car is no bigger than a UTV.

 

[SimsMotorsports]

It's an XP900 with only toe adjustment. It's pullin left pretty hard no brakes applied.

We had my lady friends Honda 04 CRV front wheel drive up on racks last night @ Pep Boys. She gets a shimmy in the steering wheel when accelerating around 45-55 mph no brakes. Rotated tires, check the ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings all good after over 100K miles. No steering dampener. Doesn't pull or anything, sears talked her into an alignment when they rotated the tires and she told them she had the shimmy. $80 rip shimmy needs to be fixed first.

Any ideas? We decided to wait till it gets worse since we cant find the prob? This car is no bigger than a UTV.

I know the Xp900 has only toe adjustment, but if there is a difference between the caster on the left and right it would cause a pull. So what i am saying is that even if you got the toe "perfect" it could still pull. There are a few reasons why the caster could be different from side to side.

On the CRV you are correct an alignment will never ever correct a shimmy, vibration, ect.... Many people are mistaken by that and its an easy selling point for shops. If i had to put all my marbles in a jar off the info you gave i would say a bad half shaft (axle shaft). And you said it only does it under acceleration at 45-55mph right?

 

[SimsMotorsports]

Oh and on the Xp900 i know this sounds stupid, but make sure tire pressures are all equal from left to right. A small difference in air pressure will cause a huge difference.

 

[TNT]

Yeah PB found a leak in the rear that side I couldn't find with my squirt bottle it was low so I'll fill em all up and check it.

Yeah Sears ripped her off I was not there I told her call me anytime they wanna do something AND I bought here a Haynes and showed her how to use the troubleshooting section to at least get an idea, alignment was not for shimmy in the wheel. Tires, tie rods, ball joint, bearing's. I moved the axle shaft on that side in and out checked the plunge depth it was about 1/8" that what you thinking?

 

[SimsMotorsports]

Well a "shimmy or vibration" will be caused by something spinning or going round. I own an automotive & alignment shop and my experiance with the description you have provided is an axleshaft. Visually look for a torn cv boot or grease that has been flung out of the joint. Even if there is nothing visual the cv joints as they wear seem to bind under acceleration and that is what i am basing this off of. You stated that it does it "under acceleration" that would be when a cv would be binding. Also a control arm bushing could be worn out and causing the axle to bind.

 

[TNT]

Branden I looked at the CV no grease. I figured it boiled down to a cat and mouse game of replacing stuff so figured sit on it see if it presents itself more in time like a blown boot or more play somewhere.

 

[Odyknuck]

I have been toying with the Ideal of using one of the laser levelers on the market to set toe. I picked one up for around 20 bucks to try out. I currently use and old angle iron bed rail and sit it on a milk crate with one end up against the rear tire as the point of reference. Thinking I can do the same with the laser. I prefer toe in on any offroad vechile as opposed to toe out. Gives it a much more stable ride.

 

[TNT]

Good idea Steve master gage off the rear and chassis CL way to go. Where is this industry's tool designers, common this is basic stuff.....I need low cost and effective! I'll buy or do I go to primitive inaccurate tape measure methods I got no time for.... Gosh, Dealer how much you charge for crap $100/hr? Vendors need help?

BTW there is a laser tracker(transmitter and targets) set up we use in aircraft often to see if we match 3d models, alot depends on where you choose the axis, hopefully to POL datum axis if you know where that is, not hard to figure if you know tooling and master gage interface control. You vendors need a tool that can pick up on key features like tooling pins and balls on the chassis, suspension, figure it out make it low cost.

 

[brad]

It's an XP900 with only toe adjustment. It's pullin left pretty hard no brakes applied.

We had my lady friends Honda 04 CRV front wheel drive up on racks last night @ Pep Boys. She gets a shimmy in the steering wheel when accelerating around 45-55 mph no brakes. Rotated tires, check the ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, no rack and pinion play we can detect, no blown struts, engine mounts look ok, all good after over 100K miles. No steering dampener. Doesn't pull or anything, sears talked her into an alignment when they rotated the tires and she told them she had the shimmy. $80 rip shimmy needs to be fixed first.

Any ideas? We decided to wait till it gets worse since we cant find the prob? This car is no bigger than a UTV.

I've had the front drive axles cause that issue, specifically a worn inner tripod joint. As far as checking toe on the UTV (or any vehicle for that matter), I use use a set of toe plates. Makes it real quick and easy.

Longacre Toe Plates - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

 

[Odyknuck]

The problem I see with toe plates is you have no real point of reference so that when your done the steering wheel ends up being straight running down the road. At least with using the rear wheels as a reference you have a good chance they will track with the front wheels.

 

[TNT]

Right, the toe plates let you know where it is with respect to one another not the CL of the chassis, rear suspension, and 4 tires, which is necessary for proper tracking and handling.

What be a real challange besides what I wrote above is a modular tool that is collapsable, stores easy, and can be used for other tooling purposes.

Tool design is not easy, I've done enough to know. Wish I had the time.

Thanks Brad & Branden I'll take a look at the axles in Haynes.