2017 BITD MINT 400 DRAW ORDER

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
296
63
Houston, Texas
Maybe we will find out just how good Matlock is??? There are both sides of the coin to look at, some of the newbies might be fast, but get stuck deep in the field, some of the newbies also don't know when to move over... Qualifying is the most fair, but logistical nightmare for most people and sanctioning bodies...
Which one? We already know she's good.....idk if the old dude still has it though. Lol
 

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
296
63
Houston, Texas
Going through the turbo field was a nightmare at parker. One guy bent my rack and tie rod, then later, one put a rock through the radiator when they wouldn't move over for over a half mile in a wash.
I think if you hit someone with your front end it's automatically their fault. I agree I think half the turbo class was stuck in limp mode....:)
 

motive

Active Member
Jan 12, 2014
219
94
28
Pleasant Grove, UT
I think that if you miss a race and therefor out of the point championship that you start behind those that are in it. That will let the fast group race together up front and the weekend warriors and new racers race together. No need for an extra day qualifying. Its already hard enough for some to make it to the races with work, young families and a spouse that doesn't appreciate you being gone 4 days, 7 times a year.
 

jakecarver91

Active Member
Nov 11, 2009
264
125
43
31
Going through the turbo field was a nightmare at parker. One guy bent my rack and tie rod, then later, one put a rock through the radiator when they wouldn't move over for over a half mile in a wash.

That's what bumpers are for. I know I won't be waiting for my equipment to get damaged in this race.
 

baja specialist

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2013
242
254
63
Alpine CA
I think that if you miss a race and therefor out of the point championship that you start behind those that are in it. That will let the fast group race together up front and the weekend warriors and new racers race together. No need for an extra day qualifying. Its already hard enough for some to make it to the races with work, young families and a spouse that doesn't appreciate you being gone 4 days, 7 times a year.
Isn't that the point of a race, to go out and race everyone and see where you end up in the end. Or are you just interested in racing only those going for the year end points?
I would not call 40 minutes to an hour behind the leader "the fast group". The UTV class is the only class in desert racing that does it this way and it's a joke!!! Half of the guys in the top 10 "the fast guys" were over 40 minutes behind the lead car. No offence to them at all but that does not make the guys that are starting out of the top ten "weekend warriors" just because they are not doing the whole series or had a problem at the race before.

But I see your point but about the extra days and money. I think it should be qualifying at big events like this and and a drawing for all cars in the other events. If you don't want to qualify you can do the same thing as the "weekend warrior" Trophy Truck drivers and start in the back. That way all of the "fast guys" would definitely be up front racing together.
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
970
310
63
What different between desert racing today and 25 years ago? Really nothing, except for crappier tracks as we get squeezed into smaller areas. Enteries in many classes had 30+ vehicles, and unlit recently all classes were at the mercy of the draw. I know it's not popular in BITD but requesting a rear start used to be the strategy of many teams in Score. Some still do it, and while I disagree with that strategy, it has worked for many.

For those who got a poor draw, take it for what it is, change up your race strategy to make a rear start work for you and don't be afraid of using a bumper when appropriate. Think about short pitting, unscheduled fuel splashes at outside pits to keep you ahead and out of the dust, or to get you around someone. Move your main pit to another location vs the main with everyone else. This is what those TT and class 1 guys are doing with a bad start position. There is more then one strategy when racing a designated pit location BITD race. You just have to think outside the box.
 

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
296
63
Houston, Texas
There were only 6-7 "fast guys" at Parker. I think only 3 were factory sponsored the rest were weekend warriors....which means you pay your own way. Regardless how fast you "were" shouldn't matter that's old news. Last race is all that should count for this season. The weekend warriors that finished ahead of a helluva lot of "fast guys" have jobs and expenses compared to factory drivers so qualifying would be hard on them financially and just one more disadvantage to overcome.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: motive

motive

Active Member
Jan 12, 2014
219
94
28
Pleasant Grove, UT
I know what you are saying baja specialist and I understand you don't like my idea because you don't race every BITD. That is not to say you are not fast by any means. But with the UTV class swinging from 40 to up to 100 racers depending on the race how do you make it fair for the guys that are in it for the whole series? Maybe my dad was onto something whenever we complained that something was unfair. He would say it was just part of the comprehensive plan of unfairness. Everyone is treated unfairly equally. Just put every racer into the draw and thats it. IMO, this top 10 start up front just makes it harder for someone that had a bad race to regain momentum. And why do UTV racers think we need qualifying? Because we have the biggest class? Or is it because the factory racers that can afford the extra expenses want an advantage over the guys that scrape every penny and work till 3 AM on their car every night just to make it happen? Lets be serious here, almost every TT and class 1 racer has the money to qualify but in the UTV class it ranges from guys that build a new car every year just because all the way to guys that make huge sacrifices to race. If it moves towards qualifying then just put another nail in the coffin because "Isn't that the point of a race, to go out and race everyone and see where you end up in the end". Qualifying in this class does not serve that purpose at all when a large number of racers wont be able to afford the additional costs.
 

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
296
63
Houston, Texas
I'd be fine with everyone draw like it used to be until they changed it after much complaining.....Your absolutely right qualifying is giving teams with the most advantages even more advantages.
 

ssb4

Member
Feb 13, 2015
68
23
8
39
SCORE does the draw for every race and it works just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

baja specialist

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2013
242
254
63
Alpine CA
I'd be fine with everyone draw like it used to be until they changed it after much complaining.....You're absolutely right qualifying is giving teams with the most advantages even more advantages.
Again, I see your point on the added expense of having to show up and qualify just to be given a fair shot at a good start. But on the other hand isn't making someone do the whole series in order to have a top ten start asking the same thing? Some people don't have the budget or time to race the whole series, just like some people don't have the budget or time to show up a day earlier to qualify.

They should ether qualify or put the whole class in the drawing. Again NO other class does this top ten crap in desert racing, not in the motos, not in the cars, or the trucks. Just the UTV's???
 
  • Like
Reactions: kornfed and ssb4

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2012
970
310
63
Who created this top 10 starting rule anyways? I agree it's got to be one of the dumbest rules made on deciding a starting order. And like Wayne said no other BITD class does this, or for that fact any other desert series.

I know I the past, race series have given preferential treatment to full series racers to enter a popular race like the Mint, where entries are limited and it's going to max out. They will say in order to assure your entry is accepted you must race the previous race in the series, all others are first come first serve. But to use your finishing results to determine your starting position for the next race is just dumb.

Is this something that derived from the UTV Championships? I thought they did something like this the first years they created it? Your Parker results where how you drew for the start?
 

rico

New Member
Oct 16, 2014
24
20
3
Lehi, UT
Again, I see your point on the added expense of having to show up and qualify just to be given a fair shot at a good start. But on the other hand isn't making someone do the whole series in order to have a top ten start asking the same thing? Some people don't have the budget or time to race the whole series, just like some people don't have the budget or time to show up a day earlier to qualify.

They should ether qualify or put the whole class in the drawing. Again NO other class does this top ten crap in desert racing, not in the motos, not in the cars, or the trucks. Just the UTV's???
Who created this top 10 starting rule anyways? I agree it's got to be one of the dumbest rules made on deciding a starting order. And like Wayne said no other BITD class does this, or for that fact any other desert series.

I know I the past, race series have given preferential treatment to full series racers to enter a popular race like the Mint, where entries are limited and it's going to max out. They will say in order to assure your entry is accepted you must race the previous race in the series, all others are first come first serve. But to use your finishing results to determine your starting position for the next race is just dumb.

Is this something that derived from the UTV Championships? I thought they did something like this the first years they created it? Your Parker results where how you drew for the start?
Actually, multiple other BITD classes use the top ten format. Compare the 2017 Parker 425 results with the starting order for the Mint 400. Both class 10 and 6100 trucks are using the top ten method, and I think this has been the standard for a good portion of last year (it would be pretty easy to look at the records and determine when it began). These two classes are, in general, faster, more prestigious, and more expensive, (depending on the vehicle, your opinion, and the specific program) than the UTV classes yet they seem to be accepting this method. It would be interesting to hear their opinions (Todd....recon mission! :D)

The fact is there are pros and cons to every method generating the starting order, and it is almost impossible to please everyone at once. In my opinion the top 10 method is a pretty decent effort of balancing race performance, series loyalty, and the lower-budget racer's needs. So lets get the torches and pitchforks and complain its not perfect for each of our needs!:rolleyes:
 

george.felix

George
Jan 11, 2015
818
296
63
Houston, Texas
The fact is there are pros and cons to every method generating the starting order, and it is almost impossible to please everyone at once. In my opinion the top 10 method is a pretty decent effort of balancing race performance, series loyalty, and the lower-budget racer's needs. So lets get the torches and pitchforks and complain its not perfect for each of our needs!:rolleyes:
Maybe we could just try racing without working the system in every way possible and see how that works. There's more massaging going on in this series than Chinatowns Red Light district. Top 10 start in front or everyone draws. No one cares how fast you were last year or how many issues you had last race. After the green light your not a factory or low budget racer your just a racer.....the way it should be.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,243
Messages
179,331
Members
12,077
Latest member
hireli3527