Should BITD Have Let Max Gordon (8yr Old) Race??

[motive]

I can only take so many (parenthesis) run on sentences lack of comma(s) in the right spots shifting back and forth from present and past tense [multiquotes] and a handful of other idiosyncrasies (hereto thought up, real or otherwise) in his writing style before I don't even care what his (her, their) point is let alone have the faintest clue what he (she, it, ze, hir) is even going on about let alone why everyone that makes a comment in agreement with said person is bashed for not doing enough and/or throwing a fit to protect (y)ourlegacy from all the socialists that spread lies for the sole (multi) purpose of killing the conversation about whatever the hell the topic was in the first place!

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

Again, I, myself, asked 1 question... if it was him, he could pm me... I'm not here to drag anyone through the dirt.

If you know the man's son AND family so well (as you claim) then you can sure as blazes contact ONE of them to prevent yourself from claiming on this forum that he is indeed somebody else. From what research I could gather (which took me all of about 30 seconds) he declared 4 years ago that he would never post here again and hasn't. From the quality of responses that I've witnessed to date regarding 8 year olds racing improperly equipped high horsepower golf carts with nobody but Joey and a few others being not only outraged but cognizant as to how (unchecked) these near unanimously approved stunts will destroy this sport?
I don't blame him.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

I can only take so many (parenthesis) run on sentences lack of comma(s) in the right spots shifting back and forth from present and past tense [multiquotes] and a handful of other idiosyncrasies (hereto thought up, real or otherwise) in his writing style before I don't even care what his (her, their) point is let alone have the faintest clue what he (she, it, ze, hir) is even going on about let alone why everyone that makes a comment in agreement with said person is bashed for not doing enough and/or throwing a fit to protect (y)ourlegacy from all the socialists that spread lies for the sole (multi) purpose of killing the conversation about whatever the hell the topic was in the first place!

There is an "ignore" button if anybody's writing style bothers you.
I suggest that you use it vs attacking people while claiming that you don't care what they say anyways (it's a 'grownup' thing).

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"..it's not likely that you will gain any support for your cause by trying to bully people into agreeing with you..."

Hair trigger claims of "Bullying" (brought to you by apathetic parents/grandparents everywhere) is what kids in grade schools all across this country are forced to deal with every day. I can see clearly how you might have mistaken many of these comments with those same grade school settings in terms of understanding the OP's topic in any meaningful manner.

If you come up to this forum and can't handle arguing 8-year olds driving ill-equipped monster golf carts on a closed desert race course?

Claiming to have been "bullied' in that conversation probably isn't going to teach your child much about politically/socially motivated "bullying" in his or her real (b.s. bullying) life.

I have never encountered a generation (or now 'generations') of young people so afraid of "words" let alone building anything which will last (say, a 'safety' legacy) beyond their next good time.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

I have deleted Joey's old post referring to PB (who both BJ and XP bizarrely referenced) as I believe that neither of them desire that PB be accused of being anybody on this site.

 

[bdk]

Hair trigger claims of "Bullying" (brought to you by apathetic parents/grandparents everywhere) is what kids in grade schools all across this country are forced to deal with every day. I can see clearly how you might have mistaken many of these comments with those same grade school settings in terms of understanding the OP's topic in any meaningful manner.

If you come up to this forum and can't handle arguing 8-year olds driving ill-equipped monster golf carts on a closed desert race course?

Claiming to have been "bullied' in that conversation probably isn't going to teach your child much about politically/socially motivated "bullying" in his or her real (b.s. bullying) life.

I have never encountered a generation (or now 'generations') of young people so afraid of "words" let alone building anything which will last (say, a 'safety' legacy) beyond their next good time.

So out of that entire post all you saw was ONE word? You are correct, "bully" is over used today by an overly sensitive society and I chose that ONE word poorly. I was hoping somewhere beneath all the BS there was a sensible person who believed in what they were saying but clearly you're only here for an argument. What a waste of a potentially useful thread.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

"..You are correct, "bully" is over used today by an overly sensitive society and I chose that ONE word poorly.."

if you are not choosing your words while beating others over the head with them at the same time?

You are unlikely to be constructive in a conversation.

This is about 8 year olds driving high horsepower golf carts in competitive closed course environments well known for allowing rules violations involving car to car contact let alone safety in general (ie. the car that an 8 year old is allowed to enter).

If we have to break it down to anything simpler than that so that anybody younger than say "50" can possibly not be offended somehow or so that they may (witness most commentary to date) 'understand' the concept?

It is no small wonder that this happened in the first place.

 

[It'sYourLegacy]

...by the way, this will be my last post here.

I will not associate myself with those who refuse to grasp the seriousness of safety issues involving their fellow racers let alone children. This includes manufacturers, sponsors and everybody else keeping silent here when given the opportunity to speak to truth.

May God somehow intervene here with someone in this sport before the inevitable occurs.

 

[bdk]

if you are not choosing your words while beating others over the head with them at the same time?

You are unlikely to be constructive in a conversation.

This is about 8 year olds driving high horsepower golf carts in competitive closed course environments well known for allowing rules violations involving car to car contact let alone safety in general (ie. the car that an 8 year old is allowed to enter).

If we have to break it down to anything simpler than that so that anybody younger than say "50" can possibly not be offended somehow or so that they may (witness most commentary to date) 'understand' the concept?

It is no small wonder that this happened in the first place.

I would like to apologize if you feel like I was beating you over the head with my words, the original post was meant to be mostly positive. I do try to choose my words carefully but inevitably you will offend some if you speak the truth as you're well aware. Thank you for stepping back from this thread and I will do the same as I prefer to be a silent observer to a meaningful conversation on a topic to which I have limited knowledge. I learn a lot more by listening than talking. Hopefully we can restart the conversation with ideas on how to ensure the safety of the racers and the perpetuation of the sport.

 

[the stripping shop]

The problem with an 8year old racing was not the driver it was the equipementhe was in was not up to rules.Funny thing is when we won a race, then stripped of win we didn't get a chance to fix anything. We were told zero tolerance. It'sYourLegacy says that a person under 16 shouldn't drive utv warning and safety stickers say so right. Then why in hell were Polaris allowed to race with a no ride recall then. The reason its BITD/UTVRA race rules dont apply when its there race. BITD puts on the show and UTVRA enforces the rules to a point. BITD and UTVRA have said pretty clearly if you don't like it take your shit and race somewere else.

 

[JoeyD23]

The problem with an 8year old racing was not the driver it was the equipementhe was in was not up to rules.Funny thing is when we won a race, then stripped of win we didn't get a chance to fix anything. We were told zero tolerance. It'sYourLegacy says that a person under 16 shouldn't drive utv warning and safety stickers say so right. Then why in hell were Polaris allowed to race with a no ride recall then. The reason its BITD/UTVRA race rules dont apply when its there race. BITD puts on the show and UTVRA enforces the rules to a point. BITD and UTVRA have said pretty clearly if you don't like it take your shit and race somewere else.

UTVRA needs to go. It's not an association in the first place.

Cory is a great guy when he isn't texting me telling me that using the phrase "virtual tie" to describe the 17 second difference between he and Lambert on day 1 of BWDC was "disrespectful" and finished it off by telling me I "suck". According to Cory, he WON day 1 which to me is mind boggling since I didn't realize they gave trophies away on day 1... lol So whatever, Cory thinks I'm a waste for this sport. A backstabber apparently? Cool story bro.

Anyway, Cory might mean well and I do believe he has good intentions and is honest. But let's be clear, the UTVRA is a sham, a way for him to make money on his competitors to help cover his own racing expenses. To pay a FACTORY BACKED COMPETITOR on top of your already paid for entry fees so that he can tell you if your machine is fit for competition is a total crock. This is a dead horse that needs more beating.

As I have had weeks to now digest the Max Gordon scenario I now realize that regardless of who and circumstance, letting him race was a terrible decision. I hadn't even weighed the thought of him being in a non-compliant vehicle. The story is great, I have a heart, what happened to the family certainly called for some goodwill from the community, but this is outright dangerous for not just him but for our whole community. I can't imagine in a million years that AC was good with that decision but I have been wrong before.

Ultimately I'm not sure the full weight of this poor decision rests solely on The UTVRAs shoulders. BITD has to bare some responsibility here. You can't just pick and choose when and where not to enforce rules. I get the occasional missed item on cage design or the added 1/4" of track width due to a wrong wheel selection, but 8 years old? Opening doors? What's next, forgot your fire suit but you have a motor jersey so ok?? Then again, the same guy running tech is the same guy who built a Can-AM years back that was allowed to race with a card board kick panel. Sorry Cory, it's not personal it's just context.

IYL does have some interesting points for as angry as he seems to be. One point I won't deny is the fact that I have said numerous times, this fight is on the shoulders of the competitors. How many times will you bend over before you finally stand up for this class and it's future? I get it, for most, you just want to show up and have fun and not deal with drama. That's why I have bowed out of these conversations for so long I don't want to deal with the drama either. But at some point this class is going to have to grow a pair and help Casey better solve his issue with policing what is now one of his most if not the most profitable classes in his company.

I'll now step back out and get back to sucking at what I do. Oh BTW Cory, I didn't suck enough that you couldn't send the podium photo I took of you to Can-Am to use for their press release huh? Funny, I told them that was my photo and they said you gave them permission to use it. This is me SMH, I'm not mad, just disappointed.... lol

 

[Heybeerman]

1. No way should an 8yo been allowed on course.

2. I pass every car like the driver is an 8year old. (passing=most danger in racing)

3. UTVRA is a Sham and a conflict of interest. BITD needs to step up!

4. Letting a car race, that does not pass tech is a JOKE!!!! A bad joke! "you can race this time, but have it changed before the next race".........(if your still alive)

 

[BiggJim]

We have discussed amongst our team 100 times how to get Casey Folks Attention in regards to class rules....Boycott a race...or to take that 1 step further...boycott the first race of the season. This only works if every team Vows to not show up. Casey will not pay attention to the racers until hes losing money.

 

[NIKAL]

UTVRA needs to go. It's not an association in the first place.

Anyway, Cory might mean well and I do believe he has good intentions and is honest. But let's be clear, the UTVRA is a sham, a way for him to make money on his competitors to help cover his own racing expenses. To pay a FACTORY BACKED COMPETITOR on top of your already paid for entry fees so that he can tell you if your machine is fit for competition is a total crock. This is a dead horse that needs more beating.

I have been preaching "Conflict of Interest" for a long time now. There is no resonable explanation why a racer with manufacture sponsorship should be running Tech and controlling the rules of a class or series.

As I have had weeks to now digest the Max Gordon scenario I now realize that regardless of who and circumstance, letting him race was a terrible decision. I hadn't even weighed the thought of him being in a non-compliant vehicle. The story is great, I have a heart, what happened to the family certainly called for some goodwill from the community, but this is outright dangerous for not just him but for our whole community. I can't imagine in a million years that AC was good with that decision but I have been wrong before.

I not sure why you and some others feel this whole race was due to Bob & Sharon passing. From what I was told this was in the works long before that happened. Max racing with Robby had nothing to do with Bob's death, and that should not be why this is a feel good story.

Ultimately I'm not sure the full weight of this poor decision rests solely on The UTVRAs shoulders. BITD has to bare some responsibility here. You can't just pick and choose when and where not to enforce rules. I get the occasional missed item on cage design or the added 1/4" of track width due to a wrong wheel selection, but 8 years old? Opening doors? What's next, forgot your fire suit but you have a motor jersey so ok?? Then again, the same guy running tech is the same guy who built a Can-AM years back that was allowed to race with a card board kick panel. Sorry Cory, it's not personal it's just context.

Technically YES you can only blame the UTVRA as they are the ones contracted to manage the UTV tech and rules. Casey Folks has hired the UTVRA and that lays the responsibility on their shoulders, when it comes to safety. If there is a racing issue like course cutting, timing & scoring etc.. then its a BITD issue. If the cage would have failed due to being illegal that would be on the UTVRA shoulders for allowing it to pass tech and be on a live race course. Yes in a lawsuit BITD would be involved, but so would anyone else tied to the series.

I could be wrong, but why I think the open doors deal was allowed (Maybe as a 1 time deal??) is for the same reason others can have framed single latched / hinged window nets. (BTW the hinges should have to be welded in opposite directions to not come off, yet most are not! and pass Cory's tech.) The Arctic Cat had door bars which conformed to the weak cage rules required. And the window nets were attached to the doors and framed like a framed window net with a single latch and double hinge (Like a class 5/1600, class 7, class 11, 1450 or any other production truck class, where the window net is attached to the door.) The doors had a single solid latching mechanize with a double hinge. BTW the other classes are to have a secondary latch that can be installed if the primary was to fail.

IYL does have some interesting points for as angry as he seems to be. One point I won't deny is the fact that I have said numerous times, this fight is on the shoulders of the competitors. How many times will you bend over before you finally stand up for this class and it's future? I get it, for most, you just want to show up and have fun and not deal with drama. That's why I have bowed out of these conversations for so long I don't want to deal with the drama either. But at some point this class is going to have to grow a pair and help Casey better solve his issue with policing what is now one of his most if not the most profitable classes in his company.

We have discussed amongst our team 100 times how to get Casey Folks Attention in regards to class rules....Boycott a race...or to take that 1 step further...boycott the first race of the season. This only works if every team Vows to not show up. Casey will not pay attention to the racers until hes losing money.

Again I have been saying this for a long, long time. But way to many are tied to the money and there is no way they are going to risk losing their Polaris / Can Am money, to make a stand for the better and future of the class. You all should have done this 2 years ago, you should have done it last year, you should have done it this year, But you didn't! I have said it before and I will say it again. You need to look at the future of this sport and class if you want it to be hear long term, like class 1600.

I said it before, the racers need to take control and have a voice, or shut up and allow Cory and Casey to make up your mind for you. And lets hope they take it in the right direction.

So far with the several years of bitching I've seen, I'm guessing you all dont like the direction they are going??

 

[kornfed]

Wow this thread has gone around and around and ended back at UTVRA. Bluewater was our first BITD race. We have been racing SCORE where TECH is done just around safety items, not trying to keep people from cheating. You could probably show up with a class 10 with Polaris fenders and race. Granted there are not a lot of UTVs in SCORE and God knows there is not much money in it so, why cheat.

I have to say that Cory was very professional, he checked everything, including the bore/stroke and made sure we were ready to race. He also was available when we had questions and always answered the phone when we needed advice. Also Bluewater was run like a like a clock. SCORE is cool, but not even close to as organized.

Here is the thing, that car should not have been on the course. Now Cory has to deal with this hit to reputation for allowing this weird exception. There should not be an exception to safety. He also has to deal with the fact that he is a factory driver that manages tech. The inspection service that UTVRA does is needed, but you cannot bend or break the rules.

There needs to be a hard line. Is your car safe to race? No? See you next race. I don't care who you are or how old you are.

As far as the conflict of interest, I kind of got it when the Turbo Cars came out and there was one class. That was not cool, but now with all of the classes, is there an advantage to being the tech guy and racing? Maybe, but how big of an advantage when you have money bags (Best advantage) and Cognito and Marc and Brandon and and and. I don't think these guys are worried about Cory's ECU.

My solution is as follows:

No safety exceptions PERIOD.

Set a minimum driving age of 14 (Made up number, but something around full grown)

Someone else needs to TECH Cory's car. Maybe a Polaris factory guy.

 

[NIKAL]

I think we all agree that the UTVRA failed to uphold the the Safety side of Tech. Now we dont know if Casey told Cory to let it pass, or if Cory was OK with it as it was a one time deal, and since is was a short course, and no other classes were going to be on the course at the same time? Maybe Casey had an agreement with Robby that they would park it and take a DNF if they were still on the course when the next class started? We dont know the arrangement, but Casey does. We do know that Casey took Max & Robby's entry fee and let them register for this race. So in Casey's mind 8 years old with an accompanied adult is fine to race.

Now to the good stuff!

 

[Rynomx785]

Safety stuff aside, that is pretty cool and the kid obviously has talent.

 

[trow]

I have not yet seen this mentioned in this thread but not only did the car not have all of the safety equipment required of other racers but it also had the new 2017 model suspension.
I would imagine this is not legal 1 because the 2017 was not available to the public and if it was a 2016 they changed the mounting points of the production suspension which I don't believe is legal. It can clearly be seen in the video posted above and the snip it below at 0:37.

 

[NIKAL]

I have not yet seen this mentioned in this thread but not only did the car not have all of the safety equipment required of other racers but it also had the new 2017 model suspension.
I would imagine this is not legal 1 because the 2017 was not available to the public and if it was a 2016 they changed the mounting points of the production suspension which I don't believe is legal. It can clearly be seen in the video posted above and the snip it below at 0:37.

In 2016 Arctic Cat released a special order limited edition RG Wild Cat that had the RG rear trailing arm. I don't remember the number? It was something like 500-800 RG limited editions were going to be made per special order. Part of what you got was tig welded plate trailing arms and trailing arm brackets. King / Speed Gear shocks. Upgraded cage with additional tubes like you saw on Max's car. So technically what Max drove was available in early 2016. I don't think they ever sold the max, and thought I heard once they confirmed they were going to make the rear arm Standard on all Wild Cats that they discontinued the RG limited edition.

 

[george.felix]

Ive been away bout long enough that Cory's back in the news.....not going to happen. As for Max I thought he was too young but I heard he just drove a few miles....maybe that's incorrect. In any case considering the car wasn't as safe as it could be and given Cognito was on the same course......too dangerous...