Help me decide - XP1000 BITD motor build

[BRONCOBOY]

So I know I you guys won't be sharing motor specifics but I am trying to decide which way to go on building some more power to move my fat old ass. Were getting the car sorted out slowly and my two lap ( that's all we made Sunday) pace at laughlin was good for a podium with a bone stock motor(stock exhaust even) and 32" tires. So this is what I have learned so far, please feel free to correct or school me! I wanna go FAST!

Alba
Honest opinion, suggest I do there stage 2 which is Cams, exhaust and a controller good for 9-10 hp on the dyno. Says headword is over rated and worth 3-4 horsepower, I really like the honest answer but wonder if there is more reliable power available.

Queen
Never contacted him, but his motors look fast and I know he likes them to rev them to build power which I heard is hard on the clutch's and belts. I hear 9300RPM for a Queen motor and I believe most other builders like 8800 RPM.

Sparks
We know there fast and expensive.

BikeMan
He seams to put every thing on the table Cams, Head Porting, Throttle Boring and claims 140hp. not sure I like the Bully Dog controller. Controller seam problematic.

So I have a few questions, How much power do we gain with a good port job? Do we need +1 exhaust valves? and has anyone tried the Bikeman bored throttle bodies?

Thanks

Mike Nix
Elite Racing 1963

 

[facteryfmf]

Might be cheaper the first time, but doing it twice sucks and DNF-ing a race isn't worth it.

Oh, and, Winning doesn't come cheap

 

[racer570]

I also heard that Weller is building some engines.

 

[BiggJim]

Might be cheaper the first time, but doing it twice sucks and DNF-ing a race isn't worth it.

Oh, and, Winning doesn't come cheap

What he said^^^^ Results dont lie.... Sparks have gotten phone calls after every race Talking about "My X brand motor bla, bla, bla makes 1XX hp on the dyno bla, bla, bla and the Car you work with Motors me.... Why?

good parts aren't cheap....and cheap parts aren't good

 

[HeadPorter]

To make these things reliable and get rid of the weak links would be my first suggestion. Using good parts to get through a full season will be expensive. Don't get caught up in the "yeah our motors make XXX HP." I've built and tuned a lot of XPs, and on the dyno I use they make 70ish stock. I've never had one make over 95 from any builder in stock displacement.

I use Carrillo rods, CP pistons, Ferrea valves, Ferrea springs, Web cams, and buckets.

 

[rockstarcustomz]

Queen builds fast reliable desert cars. I've been racing with my motor for almost a year no problems and I spanked these boys in Laughlin! We also use Carrillo Rods, and pistons and Web Cam Cams and buckets. They are all correct in that winning does not come cheap and cheap parts won't win races.

 

[george.felix]

You didn't mention Weller who's one of the most professional operations in an otherwise flaky business. They are super fair and extremely diligent. They don't throw HP numbers around unless you ask. They focus on the car going fast not just the motor. Another one up and coming is Throttle Out Performance in Phoenix. They do some interesting things to reduce friction and also like Weller focus on the car going fast.

FYI, I have more time on my Weller than some here. Kyle called said you might check spring retainers it's been about time. I did and one broken. That's what your looking for.....someone that keeps your old motor running longer not just build you a new one every season.

And for the record Lacrecia did NOT spank me! Partly because I wasn't there....a minor technicality.....

 

[BRONCOBOY]

"I spanked these boys in Laughlin!" Lacrecia I lined up next to your beautiful car at Laughlin and left you at the line but you made the podium and I didn't - Good Job! and Damn your exhaust is loud!

I posted this hoping I would get some feedback from the engine builders but nothing but crickets

Elite Racing #1963

 

[sand shark]

As you are in Temecula having an engine builder that is close by is helpful. Alba is not far from you and knows a thing or two about motors. If you need something tweaked it is nice to have a short drive to get it done.

If you don't mind traveling, I would go to either Curtis Sparks in Bakersfield or head over to Lake Havasu and let Queens Racing have at it.

 

[NIKAL]

Here is my suggestion and some will think it sucks, but here it is. Focus on getting your suspension to work, not just OK, but to work awesome. Sure you can do like 90% of the other guys, or you can try to figure out how to make it even better then theirs. Put your money there first. You can have a bunch of power, but if you cant get it to the ground or are having to lift because your ass end is kicking, then what good is 25+ more HP? It aint worth shit!

If I was you I would get it where the car handles so good, and you cant find away to make it better. Then I would focus on making a clutch hold together with the power you have, and after all that is dialed in at a 110% percent, then dump money into the engine and re-tune your clutch as needed.

Sure you might get passed by a few guys and lose a minute or two in some strait aways, but how much time can you gain back in the rough stuff and how much time can you put on them when they are changing a belt in the field or in a pit and you dont have too? Ask the Redlands guys how much time they lost at the Mint 400 this year, and without those two belt changes, and having to limp the last 1/2 lap on a used slipping belt. Per the clock they would have won that race without those belt changes. Even on a slipping belt in the FOX proving grounds they were able to real in Sims, only to have him pull away in the faster stuff. Ask Sims his thoughts of the handling of the Redlands car.

Yeah I've had guys with more power race me in several classes. When I raced class 10 in BITD we were the last and only Type 4 motor running against super fast and expensive Honda's. Guess what, We won 3 races that year and finished 2nd in the rest. We won the Championship, came in 2nd for the BITD Overall Points Championship got Justin Lofton the Rookie of the Year for all of BITD. We learned that HP was not the key to winning. Reliability, suspension tuning and talent is what won those races and Championship. We had to learn to drive and keep the momentum up in the turns, and be able to keep our foot in it in the rough, to beat those Honda's. Our Jimco's suspension was way more tuned and superior to even the other Jimco 10 cars.

A guy you will not know of, but can look up. Lobsam Yee was one of the fastest guys in class 10. He had a single seat Jimco with Honda power. During the BITD Pahrump Terrible's Town 250 race we got a flat and were down a few minutes to Lobsam. We caught him with 50 or so miles to go, and he told us when he saw us coming through the big rocky whoops he thought we were a class 1 car, as we were charging so fast. So when we caught him he just pulled over, only to see he just let the 2nd place class 10 car pass him. He tried as hard as he could to catch us in the big rough stuff only to blow a rear tire, bend the wheel and ultimately wrap the tire around the hub and brakes. Being that he was a single seater he was stuck out there for hours by himself trying to fix it and finish.

And regarding the engine, I cant speak for any of the builders except for Alba. I know they guys over there and they seem to know there stuff. For me it would make since to have them do my stuff as I'm only minutes away from their shop. I think part of any relationship in racing is being able to work with your outside vendors. For me having someone I could drive to and speak face to face is a big deal to me. I've heard good things about Queen, but not having him local to dyno the engine in the chassis, or to go test with would not be a viable option for me. These are the things I look at when looking for partners.

 

[tatum]

Here is my suggestion and some will think it sucks, but here it is. Focus on getting your suspension to work, not just OK, but to work awesome. Sure you can do like 90% of the other guys, or you can try to figure out how to make it even better then theirs. Put your money there first. You can have a bunch of power, but if you cant get it to the ground or are having to lift because your ass end is kicking, then what good is 25+ more HP? It aint worth shit!

If I was you I would get it where the car handles so good, and you cant find away to make it better. Then I would focus on making a clutch hold together with the power you have, and after all that is dialed in at a 110% percent, then dump money into the engine and re-tune your clutch as needed.

Sure you might get passed by a few guys and lose a minute or two in some strait aways, but how much time can you gain back in the rough stuff and how much time can you put on them when they are changing a belt in the field or in a pit and you dont have too? Ask the Redlands guys how much time they lost at the Mint 400 this year, and without those two belt changes, and having to limp the last 1/2 lap on a used slipping belt. Per the clock they would have won that race without those belt changes. Even on a slipping belt in the FOX proving grounds they were able to real in Sims, only to have him pull away in the faster stuff. Ask Sims his thoughts of the handling of the Redlands car.

Yeah I've had guys with more power race me in several classes. When I raced class 10 in BITD we were the last and only Type 4 motor running against super fast and expensive Honda's. Guess what, We won 3 races that year and finished 2nd in the rest. We won the Championship, came in 2nd for the BITD Overall Points Championship got Justin Lofton the Rookie of the Year for all of BITD. We learned that HP was not the key to winning. Reliability, suspension tuning and talent is what won those races and Championship. We had to learn to drive and keep the momentum up in the turns, and be able to keep our foot in it in the rough, to beat those Honda's. Our Jimco's suspension was way more tuned and superior to even the other Jimco 10 cars.

A guy you will not know of, but can look up. Lobsam Yee was one of the fastest guys in class 10. He had a single seat Jimco with Honda power. During the BITD Pahrump Terrible's Town 250 race we got a flat and were down a few minutes to Lobsam. We caught him with 50 or so miles to go, and he told us when he saw us coming through the big rocky whoops he thought we were a class 1 car, as we were charging so fast. So when we caught him he just pulled over, only to see he just let the 2nd place class 10 car pass him. He tried as hard as he could to catch us in the big rough stuff only to blow a rear tire, bend the wheel and ultimately wrap the tire around the hub and brakes. Being that he was a single seater he was stuck out there for hours by himself trying to fix it and finish.

And regarding the engine, I cant speak for any of the builders except for Alba. I know they guys over there and they seem to know there stuff. For me it would make since to have them do my stuff as I'm only minutes away from their shop. I think part of any relationship in racing is being able to work with your outside vendors. For me having someone I could drive to and speak face to face is a big deal to me. I've heard good things about Queen, but not having him local to dyno the engine in the chassis, or to go test with would not be a viable option for me. These are the things I look at when looking for partners.

This times 1000

 

[rappy60guy]

I would agree with Nikal also. Look at what Cognito is making for the public and what they race. Same setup. We love our long travel Cognito xp1000

 

[george.felix]

I'd also agree with Nikal and the best advice I can give you is take your Walker Evans rears and buy a pair of Walker Evans 2.5 fronts and send them to George White at Double E racing.

 

[HeadPorter]

I posted this hoping I would get some feedback from the engine builders but nothing but crickets

Elite Racing #1963

What "specific" info are you looking for? I will answer most questions within reason. Won't give you port dimensions or camshaft info.

 

[BRONCOBOY]

I agreed with Nikal, We have fox shocks, Lone star long travel and the stock Fox set up sucks. We have done the complete Fox upgrade and spring change and that helped a ton but I still need to go out with fox and test. We are running the ITP 32" tires and have spent a day in plaster city with Adam tuning the clutch, that guy knows his shit!

My goal on the motor work is to get it done and in the car so we can get the clutch tuned again with Adam in plaster city before Vegas to Reno and hopefully test with Fox on the same day.

What "specific" info are you looking for? I will answer most questions within reason. Won't give you port dimensions or camshaft info.

I'm looking for a pump gas Race motor, I understand the lack of camshaft info. It seams everyone states the have there own cam profiles. I'm not looking to build a low buck motor but don't want through stupid money at it.

 

[HeadPorter]

My goal on the motor work is to get it done and in the car so we can get the clutch tuned again with Adam in plaster city before Vegas to Reno and hopefully test with Fox on the same day.

You'll have about 4500 in a build before any kind of labor.
Complete head (porting, valvejob, exhaust guides, exhaust seats, 38/32.5 valves, springs, buckets, etc)- 2k
Rods- 600
Pistons- 460
Cams- 475
Manual tensioner- 125
Bearings- 160
Gaskets/seals- 100
ARP main/head studs- 315
New oil pump- 125
Cam chain- 40

And that's assuming that the cylinders don't need to be replated, it doesn't need more OEM hard parts. They add up quick. Tack on another 500+ for labor depending on what kind of time the builder spends on assembly, oil mods, cam degreeing, etc.