Who wins desert challenge

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
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The Z1 swap deals that everyone is running in the dunes in and artic cat product. I have no doubts that it will be something along those lines. Will it live in the heat of the day?!?!...Maybe....Maybe not. The guy behind it does not F**K around so I am quite sure it will be legit. Not to mention the Guy behind it was sizing up his competition all weekend.
 

the stripping shop

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Jan 29, 2009
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Well we will see, as the source is credible. I don't doubt that they will detune it to start, but it will be a good 100hp more than any factory car out right now.

I am pretty sure there are some turbo sleds that are making that kind of power already, of course they have plenty of cool air for a large delta t.

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Yamaha drive train with turbo and kitty cat/ robby Gordon suspension. I would say safely 150hp 4-5psi, and 10-15psi around 200hp is more realistic. Could always go big 1050cc with 20psi around 240hp. Matt if its a robby edition put on after factory would you have to do emission crap offered by some kitty cat dealer just saying.
 

crazywatson

#13 - UTVUnderground Approved
Jul 30, 2009
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Well we will see, as the source is credible. I don't doubt that they will detune it to start, but it will be a good 100hp more than any factory car out right now.

I am pretty sure there are some turbo sleds that are making that kind of power already, of course they have plenty of cool air for a large delta t.

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I don't see that happening. It would need to run on race fuel or E85. Probably get a red sticker. Lol

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the stripping shop

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Jan 29, 2009
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The Z1 swap deals that everyone is running in the dunes in and artic cat product. I have no doubts that it will be something along those lines. Will it live in the heat of the day?!?!...Maybe....Maybe not. The guy behind it does not F**K around so I am quite sure it will be legit. Not to mention the Guy behind it was sizing up his competition all weekend.
Owe ya our Z1 runs like a bad out of hell but wont last in BITD desert, stupid belt. But manual trans no belt might just do it.
 

///Airdam Clutches

Active Member
Nov 14, 2014
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some of you guys act like the unlimited class even gets any attention? i have seen postings in like 8 places where the winners and break down of everyone ended up in the PRO class at the race this last weekend. i have yet to see a single report, or list of the entires or finishers in the unlimited class. not one post anywhere. even here on UTVunderground, joey posted the winners and a full write up on the winners and how the BITD race went, but not a single word on the finishing results of the unlimited class. there were pictures in his write up of unlimited cars, but nothing about them.

i dont want to take anything away from the guys that run the unlimited class, there are some that we help, and i give them just as much respect as i do anyone else. but the truth is, and its clearly obvious, that the unlimited class is overlooked and almost forgotten about. Lacrecia wins, and has had multiple wins in the class this season, but its gone almost completely overlooked. other than her own race reports, there hasnt been anything said about it, her wins, or the class in general. all the focus is on the PRO class. rightfully so, thats where all the money and sponsorships go. but there are many privateers in this class, who cant afford an $80.000 build once or maybe even twice a year (including the cost of the car) these privateers cant chase a series thats going to be completely ruled by turbos. all the big teams will end up with a turbo, and be racing a race thats minutes/hours ahead of pace from what any other N/A car can possibly run. No doubt cognito makes their presence known by winning a race, that was clearly destined to be dominated by Turbo builds. IF the turbo cars hadnt had problems and break-downs, dont matter how hard you push the N/A car, they wouldnt have caught up. it is going to be a lop sided race ever race next year. a privateer who doesnt have the money to replace the trans, and driveline before every race, and have the ability to spend $4,000 for special bearings to put in the trans to make them live, wont be able to hang onto any sort of a glimmer of hope to ever win a race. there just clearly isnt a way for the privateer to ever be seen in a race like this. david and goliath comes to mind, i am sure you all know the analogy.

my thoughts are to have a turbo class, and N/A class, and the unlimited class. tons of sponsors and machines in the N/A class and turbo class alike. tons of N/A cars lined up in every race in the N/A class, because there are so many folks that want to race and have a good time, and possibly win against the big names of racing. If there were two classes, i am sure the likes of JX and Cognito would possibly entertain having an N/A car and a turbo car in the race each weekend. promoting each line of products and show casing their builds. two cars on the track, both in potential for a championship, twice the normal publicity from running one car in the current PRO class. guys like johnny with both cars now, could hire a driver and have a car in the Turbo class and a car in the N/A class, both chasing points, and showcasing their builds ability. Twice the publicity, potential for two championships for one team. two classes that will get the fame and notariety. you are racing current year model machines that are being sold at the dealerships now. polaris and can-am both have N/A and Turbo cars for sale, and looks to continue to have these models available. so polaris and can-am both would likely continue with their support for each class, and offer contingency for both classes. it just seems more realistically feasible to be able to have these two classes split than some are making it seem.

yes you will have the hard charging privateers like carver that wants to race against the big boys and turbos. give anyone the option to race up a class. if an N/A wants to race up a class and race against the Turbos, let them run. but they cant go back to N/A class and remain in points.


Turbo class - policed by simple rules, stock components, stock turbo, stock injectors, must maintain factory drivetrain ect just like current rules. reflashes can only do so much with stock turbo and stock injectors so reflashes are ok.

N/A class - just like they are now. motor builds are ok, as long as it meets bore and stroke requirements, reflashes are ok, ect. pretty much identical to how it is now.

Unlimited class- just as it is now, run what you brung and hope you make it to the finish line.



i believe polaris and can-am and the soon to be built yamaha program and arctic cat programs would all be able to follow these rules and fall into their respective categories. with a class setup like this, you still maintain your 3 classes you have now, and have TWO classes that the factory sponsorships will thrive in, since they sell N/A and Turbo models off the floor. the turbo class will be run by the big boys who want the latest and greatest builds, the N/A class will be the guys that have invested tons of time and money into their cars over the last year or two and dont want to throw away a $100,000+ investment. they can still race, and still chase championship points and actually have a shot at winning
 

ALBANATE

Active Member
Feb 13, 2012
202
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28
I know nobody probably cares, but how do you think these limited modification classes effect people like us who sponsor a lot of racers? Where do I get to showcase my product and build clientele? How do I get a return on my money invested into a racer when he is not allowed to use any of my parts in his class? Kind of pointless for many of us engine builders and performance product manufacturer's to continue sponsoring racers... any input?

Nate
Alba Racing
 
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COGNITO

Cognito Motorsports - Official UTVUnderground Spon
Apr 30, 2009
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I know nobody probably cares, but how do you think these limited modification classes effect people like us who sponsor a lot of racers? Where do I get to showcase my product and build clientele? How do I get a return on my money invested into a racer when he is not allowed to use any of my parts in his class? Kind of pointless for many of us engine builders and performance product manufacturer's to continue sponsoring racers... any input?

Nate
Alba Racing
Agreed, if they split the class, then turbo cars could mod

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///Airdam Clutches

Active Member
Nov 14, 2014
358
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i am all for going fast. absolutely love it. but there is a 1000cc stock bore rule in the PRO class already. there is no reason to contest that for the upcoming season. no reason to over complicate rules next year. motor builds win races in certain places. i know that there are many racers who choose to go into their motor and build it for reliability and good usable power, but they have to stay within the rules and keep it stock bore and stock stroke. that can stand and remain.

the unlimited class can run any thing you want to build. if you wanna stick a snowmobile motor in a RZR get after it. if you wanna build an 1104 for an XP1000 and shoot for 9500RPM shiftout then rock and roll and make 145whp. if you wanna see what a T3/T4 50AR hybrid turbo does on the new RZR turbo and try to pump out 200whp then rock and roll and see what it does. but that kinda stuff fits in the unlimited class. polaris has been pretty clearly involved with this race series, because you can race their cars and win championships. they put big money into the series to show their domination. they want to see their cars run and win. they arent out to sponsor and spend millions showcasing the series to allow any specific engine builder to build a monster and put in the pro class. that stuff goes to unlimited.

as stated above in my previous suggestion / opinion, is that the production classes could remain with their current rules, the turbos now are policed and told no reflashes. in my suggestion/opinion i stated i thought they SHOULD be able to run reflashes to unleash some power. but the stock turbo and supporting components will limit how much power you can actually make. as you have probably already played with and seen. 130whp is pretty much about the max of the can-am maverick turbo with stock injectors and turbo. and thats extremely close to burning up the injectors at that. the RZR turbo can make about 135 to the tire before it runs out of injector. it has plenty more turbo, but doesnt have the injector for it. the guys will notice that running reflashes and big power dont always mix. it will burn the injectors up, and folks will realize why the factory limited them to a certain amount of power. because almost everything is more reliable that way.

the N/A production class would remain with pretty much the same rules that are over the production class now. engine builds are ok as long as you remain with the OEM bore and stroke.


this would allow points in two production classes, and big teams to showcase two cars, and the potential for two championships. i would think that polaris would still sponsor both classes, as well as can-am.


i dont see where the suggestion/opinion i have is a bad one. seems like it helps almost everyone. privateers, sponsored and non sponsored racers, big teams, and the little guys. lets the big teams run two championship classes, one with an N/A car and one with a turbo car, the privateers to run against other N/A machines rather than the high dollar builds of sponsored Turbo racers.
 

COGNITO

Cognito Motorsports - Official UTVUnderground Spon
Apr 30, 2009
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i am saying if the turbo has its own class, the turbos could mod, meaning port the head, add exhaust, do some fuel and ignition tuning, etc. Not big bore
 
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///Airdam Clutches

Active Member
Nov 14, 2014
358
176
43
yes. just as i figure will be done anyway. bore it. keep it under 1000cc. port the heads, do whatever you want to do within reason. the stock turbo and stock injectors will limit what can feasibly be done (power that can be made)

the N/A guys already port them and play with their engines. no secret. but still have to remain within the 1000cc rules. the turbo is a smaller 934 or something like that, and can-am has a 975 i think it is. if they wanna bore them to 1000 then that should remain within the bore and stroke size to keep them at 1000cc that may be a part of the rules this coming year if the turbo class is split off the N/A class.
 
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Bajaxp

SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 21, 2010
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OC
Yamaha drive train with turbo and kitty cat/ robby Gordon suspension. I would say safely 150hp 4-5psi, and 10-15psi around 200hp is more realistic. Could always go big 1050cc with 20psi around 240hp. Matt if its a robby edition put on after factory would you have to do emission crap offered by some kitty cat dealer just saying.
Rito, I am not sure what you are saying. The current rules are 1000cc and OEM engine hardware. If it was within the rules and for closed course only, then no...it wouldn't have to go through emissions. Just like Kroyer TT engines don't have to go through emissions to race in SCORE or BITD.
 

BiggJim

I Hate Rules - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 15, 2009
2,079
452
83
Bakersfield
some of you guys act like the unlimited class even gets any attention? i have seen postings in like 8 places where the winners and break down of everyone ended up in the PRO class at the race this last weekend. i have yet to see a single report, or list of the entires or finishers in the unlimited class. not one post anywhere. even here on UTVunderground, joey posted the winners and a full write up on the winners and how the BITD race went, but not a single word on the finishing results of the unlimited class. there were pictures in his write up of unlimited cars, but nothing about them.

i dont want to take anything away from the guys that run the unlimited class, there are some that we help, and i give them just as much respect as i do anyone else. but the truth is, and its clearly obvious, that the unlimited class is overlooked and almost forgotten about. Lacrecia wins, and has had multiple wins in the class this season, but its gone almost completely overlooked. other than her own race reports, there hasnt been anything said about it, her wins, or the class in general. all the focus is on the PRO class. rightfully so, thats where all the money and sponsorships go. but there are many privateers in this class, who cant afford an $80.000 build once or maybe even twice a year (including the cost of the car) these privateers cant chase a series thats going to be completely ruled by turbos. all the big teams will end up with a turbo, and be racing a race thats minutes/hours ahead of pace from what any other N/A car can possibly run. No doubt cognito makes their presence known by winning a race, that was clearly destined to be dominated by Turbo builds. IF the turbo cars hadnt had problems and break-downs, dont matter how hard you push the N/A car, they wouldnt have caught up. it is going to be a lop sided race ever race next year. a privateer who doesnt have the money to replace the trans, and driveline before every race, and have the ability to spend $4,000 for special bearings to put in the trans to make them live, wont be able to hang onto any sort of a glimmer of hope to ever win a race. there just clearly isnt a way for the privateer to ever be seen in a race like this. david and goliath comes to mind, i am sure you all know the analogy.

my thoughts are to have a turbo class, and N/A class, and the unlimited class. tons of sponsors and machines in the N/A class and turbo class alike. tons of N/A cars lined up in every race in the N/A class, because there are so many folks that want to race and have a good time, and possibly win against the big names of racing. If there were two classes, i am sure the likes of JX and Cognito would possibly entertain having an N/A car and a turbo car in the race each weekend. promoting each line of products and show casing their builds. two cars on the track, both in potential for a championship, twice the normal publicity from running one car in the current PRO class. guys like johnny with both cars now, could hire a driver and have a car in the Turbo class and a car in the N/A class, both chasing points, and showcasing their builds ability. Twice the publicity, potential for two championships for one team. two classes that will get the fame and notariety. you are racing current year model machines that are being sold at the dealerships now. polaris and can-am both have N/A and Turbo cars for sale, and looks to continue to have these models available. so polaris and can-am both would likely continue with their support for each class, and offer contingency for both classes. it just seems more realistically feasible to be able to have these two classes split than some are making it seem.

yes you will have the hard charging privateers like carver that wants to race against the big boys and turbos. give anyone the option to race up a class. if an N/A wants to race up a class and race against the Turbos, let them run. but they cant go back to N/A class and remain in points.


Turbo class - policed by simple rules, stock components, stock turbo, stock injectors, must maintain factory drivetrain ect just like current rules. reflashes can only do so much with stock turbo and stock injectors so reflashes are ok.

N/A class - just like they are now. motor builds are ok, as long as it meets bore and stroke requirements, reflashes are ok, ect. pretty much identical to how it is now.

Unlimited class- just as it is now, run what you brung and hope you make it to the finish line.



i believe polaris and can-am and the soon to be built yamaha program and arctic cat programs would all be able to follow these rules and fall into their respective categories. with a class setup like this, you still maintain your 3 classes you have now, and have TWO classes that the factory sponsorships will thrive in, since they sell N/A and Turbo models off the floor. the turbo class will be run by the big boys who want the latest and greatest builds, the N/A class will be the guys that have invested tons of time and money into their cars over the last year or two and dont want to throw away a $100,000+ investment. they can still race, and still chase championship points and actually have a shot at winning
$4K tranny bearings? I need to find a set of those cause ours are double that!
 
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the stripping shop

RACER - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 29, 2009
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Rito, I am not sure what you are saying. The current rules are 1000cc and OEM engine hardware. If it was within the rules and for closed course only, then no...it wouldn't have to go through emissions. Just like Kroyer TT engines don't have to go through emissions to race in SCORE or BITD.
Ex ford raptor with 6.1liter from ford or you can get rousch edition supercharged from dealer with ford warranty. Ford goes around emission law.Yamaha utv or snowmobile N/A but can have dealer put on turbo with factory warranty same goes around emission law. That was what I was talking about. Not from the factory but it is.
 

Bajaxp

SXS Racer Extraordinaire - UTVUnderground Approved
Jan 21, 2010
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Pretty sure that they don't go around the emission laws. Think VW TDI
 

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