Stop giving the buggy dork tricks to the golf cart drivers...j/k Carry on!
32" Tire for BITD 2016
- Thread starter SimsMotorsports
- Start date
i am not a mechanic by any means. i have never looked at a polaris axle other than seeing them broken and being replaced. but from memory, i think the broached area where the ball rides, is too deep for you to machine any ribs in the cup. i dont have one in hand, and have never held one in hand but going from what i have seen, i think the outer cup to the deepest part that is broached in for the roller bearing is likely only .200-.300 at most. i dont think the cups are very thick at all. if you look at the can-am axle the inner cup is quite large. i believe its a steel cup thats machined smooth, and an aluminum sleeve pressed over it. again, i havent held one in hand but i feel certain the inner race of the cup is steel.
the 930 CVs bolt to a flat faced hub though dont they? i have often wondered why someone doesnt machine something similar for the UTVs and run a much heavier and larger hub that will withstand the dumb stuff you guys put them thru. i think it would be rather easy if you think about it. since the XP1000 rear diff has a thru hole in the ring gear, when you pull both rear axles out you can see all the way thru the diff. machine a piece thats splined and has a flat faced hub that will accept the 930CV. have the two identical pieces machines so both fit in the diff and touch in the middle. have one end drilled and tapped, and the other end bored for a bolt to run thru. so you run a single bolt down the middle of the two bolting them to each other so they are locked in the ring gear. then you have the flat faced hubs outboard and your 930 CVs will bolt up. use 930 inner cups and the OEM polaris outers unless someone builds a specific outer hub that will also accept a larger outer axle shaft.
the one thing about the arctic cat and original maverick is the diameter of their outer axle stubs. when you side load the car you can break the end of the axle stub off, and the whole wheel and hub go rolling past you. can-am upgraded the XDS Turbo outer axle stubs increasing the diameter by 10mm. they have a new hub with larger bearing that accepts the +10mm larger axle stub. since this introduction i have not seen a single Mav Turbo lose a rear wheel. which was quite a common occurence in the original NA mavericks untill everyone started using Rockford outer cups. the arctic cats still have that problem. i am hoping they upgrade the axle diameter in the newer machines.
the 930 CVs bolt to a flat faced hub though dont they? i have often wondered why someone doesnt machine something similar for the UTVs and run a much heavier and larger hub that will withstand the dumb stuff you guys put them thru. i think it would be rather easy if you think about it. since the XP1000 rear diff has a thru hole in the ring gear, when you pull both rear axles out you can see all the way thru the diff. machine a piece thats splined and has a flat faced hub that will accept the 930CV. have the two identical pieces machines so both fit in the diff and touch in the middle. have one end drilled and tapped, and the other end bored for a bolt to run thru. so you run a single bolt down the middle of the two bolting them to each other so they are locked in the ring gear. then you have the flat faced hubs outboard and your 930 CVs will bolt up. use 930 inner cups and the OEM polaris outers unless someone builds a specific outer hub that will also accept a larger outer axle shaft.
the one thing about the arctic cat and original maverick is the diameter of their outer axle stubs. when you side load the car you can break the end of the axle stub off, and the whole wheel and hub go rolling past you. can-am upgraded the XDS Turbo outer axle stubs increasing the diameter by 10mm. they have a new hub with larger bearing that accepts the +10mm larger axle stub. since this introduction i have not seen a single Mav Turbo lose a rear wheel. which was quite a common occurence in the original NA mavericks untill everyone started using Rockford outer cups. the arctic cats still have that problem. i am hoping they upgrade the axle diameter in the newer machines.
no room the cv would hit front out put shaft been there tried that no room. Turner axles are the biggest that I know of best set up we used on our 900 but you had to put the right cv grease in to make them last.
yeah turners run stupid hot because of the tolerances. on the mud bikes with turners i know guys run valve grinding compound in the turner and run them on the lathe for a few minutes and work the bar in and out and up and down to help give a little clearance before cleaning and reassembling. on the mud bikes you can always tell turners, they are huge, and they are hot.
We really should move this technical talk to another thread as this is a tire size bitch thread!
But I'm going to continue the tech talk!
Like Stripping Shop said their is no room on the left inner CV for a bigger CV on the Polaris as the Output shaft housing on the trans is in the way. But I like where Adam is going in his thoughts, and I too was just speaking to someone a few months back about this as I was about CV boots. I'm clearly an imagineer with no funding! But by looking at our 5/1600 you can see it was way ahead of its time, and in some places still is. I'm all about the little details, and not buying everything off the shelf, just because everyone else does.
Regarding axles, I will say it again, bigger is not always better. And I will bet bet most axle CV failures have nothing to do with the size of the axle being to small, if anything the bigger size could be the problem with most axle, CV and drive train failures. Has anyone ever actually seen a torsion bar or sway bar twist? Its awesome! To think steel can twist like that is insane! I have actually seen a bar in a press and watched the bar twist like 90 degrees.
Adam if your seeing the axles break at the spines or at the end of the spline where the axle bar is tapered. This makes me question if who is building the axles is cutting the spines into the axle, or are they rolled splines onto the axle? Cutting can cause small crystal like fractures within the material at the base of the spline. It also causes the axle to be weakest at the point were the spline stops as the axle tappers down. When you cold roll the splines you are essentially forging the splines onto the material making it much stronger.
Also anyone can tell you its 300M material, but is it? And what grade? I cant imagine the stock OEM star being stronger then a good 300M torsional axle. Also you need to heat treat the finished axle, is that even being done? Then after its heat treated you still have to put it in a lathe and measure it for trueness as they will bow. Then you put the axle in a press and true it back to spec. Also there is a different process of heat treat to make a torsion bar vs heat treat to make something stronger. And is the heat treat even done right? This is another reason why I've never been a fan of powder coating axles as you are re-heating the axle as powder coat bakes at around 200 degrees. Many say this is not a problem or issue, but I just dont know?
I wont even get into Gun drilled axles! LOL
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Todd, no worries on hijacking the 'tar' thread. Actually they are very related because if you go too big and heavy you will eventually tear something up down stream (or is that up stream?). Cory shouldn't have dictated 32" because he has tire sponsor that makes this O.D., just like he shouldn't have unilaterally made the turbo rule just because his O.E. of choice, made a turbo. It is just wrong...period.
Gun drilled axles are very cool as the inner part of a 'bar' does little to no work. All it does is add weight ard reciprocating mass. I agree with you on torsional 'loose' axles. 300m is actually a lot weaker than chromoly at yield measured in ksi, but it flexes so much it never gets to yield. Chromoly doesn't flex as much and thus shock loads can take it to yield much quicker. My 2 pesos! Good thread by the way and Wayne you are a dick. (just kidding).
Gun drilled axles are very cool as the inner part of a 'bar' does little to no work. All it does is add weight ard reciprocating mass. I agree with you on torsional 'loose' axles. 300m is actually a lot weaker than chromoly at yield measured in ksi, but it flexes so much it never gets to yield. Chromoly doesn't flex as much and thus shock loads can take it to yield much quicker. My 2 pesos! Good thread by the way and Wayne you are a dick. (just kidding).
Nikal - you are 100% correct!
Some of us do - and I see the UTV class heading that way. Also add the downfall of MTEG in as well (in was not just the murder of Mickey & Trudy but 1 mfg forcing to get their way, causing others to pull out, collapsing the greatest series ever).
If we use that argument then only Polaris should be allowed to race. They give the racing community the most support out of the OEM's.
They also look heavy lol33" BFG's look rad.
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