i'M ALWAYS IMPRESSED tODD, BY HOW MUCH YOU KNOW VS. HOW YOUNG YOU ARE.One of the things you dont realize or think about is shock load & wheel spin. Shock load through the drivetrain was greater then I realized. I only learned about this when XTrac was working & developing a TT gearbox for Jimco.
I will be the first to tell you I know little about the CVT clutch. But one area I see where shock load could be a huge factor in a UTV or CVT trans is due to the fact the CTV shifts are base on clutch weights & RPM. As your suspension is compressing & rebounding you are constanlty losing traction & then as the tire compresses on the ground you are gaining full traction, which is constantly sending shock through the drivetrain & CVT. I would guess you could see a bit of belt slippage too, which I would expect to cause more heat & belt failure. I dont know of a dyno that can duplicate any of this.
Also years ago while prerunning I learned about how much wheel spin you are getting. My Baja Bug prerunner had one of those CV magnet speedo senders. Coming across the San Felipe dry lake bed my speedo & GPS were almost 8 mph off, vs when being on the pavement. My Baja Bug has just about 100 hp and runs the Yokohama Super Digger 3 tire on the rear. So as you increase your hp I would expect you would see even more wheel spin in the dirt. When I asked Simon with Xtrac about wheel spin, he said they see 15-20% on the Class 1's & TT's with the BFG Project tire. Simon said the only way to test shock loads & wheel spin was in real life testing. They could not duplicate what they saw on the track in a lab. He said this was a huge surprise to them as Xtrac builds Indy car, F1, La Mans and even Dakar gearboxes. Every type of vehicle they have worked with they had been able to duplicate or R&D in a lab setting. American Off-Road Racing was a huge eye opener for them.
All UTV's CVT clutch performance
- Thread starter badassmav
- Start date
At this point Rito, I'm looking more for someone with experience that physically ran a TRA primary on a side by side, and the results that it netted. One thing though, is the taper and diameter of the interface where the primary clutch slides onto the crankshaft the same as the Maverick? Thanks for offering your info!
I love reading non fiction literature. I'll get one if it covers the gamot on CVT/TSA clutches. Do you have the book, and does it cover both types of clutches?
An engineer from BRP informed us today that the TRA primary clutches that are stock in the Ski-doo and commonly used on snowmobiles are designed for 2 stroke engines, and would not be a good choice for the Maverick. Thanks for the information you all have been sharing, but our search for reliability continues. I have made adjustments in the area of cooling, and evacuating heat from the CVT enclosure, and will be testing the modifications probably on the week of the V2R race.
I still have yet to locate my copy, but IMO you will be well served by one.
Ski Doo has many various 4 stroke snowmobiles. They did use the V twin some years ago, now they use inline twins and triples... It is surprising (or maybe not) that the engineer did not discuss those clutches with you, unless they would be of no benefit? I think they call the latest 4 stroke clutch edrive.
As for cooling air flow, feed air into the secondary clutch at its center... like a large turbo or water pump impeller. Maybe even mount a fan on the nose of it, like yamaha did with the Rhino 700.
Ski Doo has many various 4 stroke snowmobiles. They did use the V twin some years ago, now they use inline twins and triples... It is surprising (or maybe not) that the engineer did not discuss those clutches with you, unless they would be of no benefit? I think they call the latest 4 stroke clutch edrive.
As for cooling air flow, feed air into the secondary clutch at its center... like a large turbo or water pump impeller. Maybe even mount a fan on the nose of it, like yamaha did with the Rhino 700.
Who out there is running a drive belt other than stock, and why? Anyone have experience changing over from stock to the Gates G-Force belts? I hear that stock belts are still the best choice (for the Can-am at least) for durability and longevity, but I find it hard to believe that an aftermarket company can't out perform thy OEM belts.
So, you are using it because it is cheaper? Or, does it offer more miles and less slippage? C'mon Jim, you know I need info!
Let's be honest most are going to the Gates belts because they are cheaper.
I still believe the stock belt is your best option. If you can't keep the belt temps under control, the belt is going to fail no matter what brand you run.
I still believe the stock belt is your best option. If you can't keep the belt temps under control, the belt is going to fail no matter what brand you run.
I have always believed in Factory Belts. I do now own a Gates C-12 as a spare since a lot of guys say they work lol. For most people cruising trails Im sure any old Rubberband would work. High Speed heavily overload extreme Conditions will figure that out real fast. I might throw on the C-12 for the Dunes and see how well it likes that Sand.
Hey Reid you could add on a NOS kit and use the Fogger nozzle to cool the clutch Faces down when the temps climb up. Hehehe. Marc might get a little Silly though. Use some Safer Industrial Gasses.
I like NOS on the clutches. Opps some how the NOS got into the motor. LMAO!I have always believed in Factory Belts. I do now own a Gates C-12 as a spare since a lot of guys say they work lol. For most people cruising trails Im sure any old Rubberband would work. High Speed heavily overload extreme Conditions will figure that out real fast. I might throw on the C-12 for the Dunes and see how well it likes that Sand.
Hey Reid you could add on a NOS kit and use the Fogger nozzle to cool the clutch Faces down when the temps climb up. Hehehe. Marc might get a little Silly though. Use some Safer Industrial Gasses.
I have a feeling you may be changing a belt in the dunes.
Out of of being desperate, Marc and I considered many forms of direct spray cooling methods. The best is to find the time to properly set the clutch up. We have yet to make it to a race, last year or this one, with the Monster Mav dialed in. There just isn't enough damn time in the day for me to get 'er done! If we could dial it in, the competition would be hating life! I believe Airdam Adam is going to come out and help us to dial the clutch in on the week of the race, at least that's our request.I have always believed in Factory Belts. I do now own a Gates C-12 as a spare since a lot of guys say they work lol. For most people cruising trails Im sure any old Rubberband would work. High Speed heavily overload extreme Conditions will figure that out real fast. I might throw on the C-12 for the Dunes and see how well it likes that Sand.
Hey Reid you could add on a NOS kit and use the Fogger nozzle to cool the clutch Faces down when the temps climb up. Hehehe. Marc might get a little Silly though. Use some Safer Industrial Gasses.
Gates C12 as well. Cost and availability was the reason. Coming from the Kawi world, we swore by stock belts. Had the OEM belt start to delam so tossed in a C12. Beat the living snot out of it with minimal (okay maybe 2 miles) of break in. This includes woods riding, dusty Oregon trail riding in hot weather, hi speed runs thru whoops, short course racing, and a brutal day at the dunes where we just aimed and hammered the skinny petal - and in many cases never planned on actually making it up what we were climbing. After at least 300 miles I pulled it out to deal with an STM clutch issue - belt looked like new and will go back in.
But a few belt prep tricks we learned from some old timer MTEG Oddy racers when my son raced Trophy Karts ... Remove belt from package, wipe off edges with lacquer thinner / contact cleaner to get all the oily residue off. Lightly sand the edges, wipe off again. Lightly scuff the clutch sheaves and wipe clean to remove belt residue. Install belt and run for 15 mins then let fully cool. Remove, wipe clean, re scuff, re clean then drive it like you stole it, no easing into the throttle, do not bog it. We often prepped several belts. Heat kills all belts. Do not store in the cardboard shipping sleeve - let it assume a round shape. Store spares in a black plastic bag in a cool dry environment.
www.NorthwestOffroad.net
Wow! Sounds like a ton of good, usable information. We scuff the sheaves, and we avoid bending the belts in a tight radius. The cross section of the belts already have a semi-matte finish new, but you're saying after wiping the sides of the belt clean w/solvent (contact cleaner ), to scuff it with sandpaper. What grit, around 180? I like the redundancy in removing the belt after 15 min., and repeating the process. If there are oily by products in the belt, they will sweat out in the first use and render the initial prep useless. I love protocols and specifics. Thanks for the input!
For what it's worth, the shop manual for the Maverick gives a usable tolerance for the major width of the belt. It claims that if it measures less than 1.171" at the outer edge, it is worn. Not much wear life being that they start out new at 1.192"+/- .001".
I scrub my belts with dish soap and warm water before putting them on. Imo the Gates belts are crap. Then when the break there extremely hard on the sheaths. I've see them destroy clutches.
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just let my friend borrow my Aaen book. kelly from pdm gave it to me when i was running his 3 and 4 weight comet clutches when we raced rhinos. huge advantage in setting up cvt clutches. graphs and charts explaining overlaps, transfers and all types of other specs.